Okay, it seems to be agreed that the 'Downbeat' snare would be worth the asking price of the kit, but is the, "4x14 snare in silver sparkle" mentioned, actually a 'Ludwig Downbeat' snare? Seems to me that it would be more common to see a Pioneer snare offered with a Club Date, or am I mistaken? Might be worth a double check, though it still seems like a reasonable price, especially from what I've seen offered in my neck of the woods lately. Oh, and is the "extra" floor tom, in addition to another floor tom? Those'd be my questions.

A Pioneer snare won't be 4x14 and the lugs are different between the Pioneer "bowtie" lugs and the Downbeat 4x14 "sideways" lugs. The Pioneer has 6 lugs. The Downbeat has 8. Anybody who is fit to be selling drums should be able to tell the difference between 6 and 8 lugs.

Any model of snare can be found with any model of kit as the years pass...stuff moves around.

Sideways lugs look like this

[img]http://www.vintagedrumguide.com/images/snare_ludwig/ludwig_downbeat_1959_green_gold_large_thumb.jpg[/img]

the early 60's clubdates actually came with jazz festivals. pioneers were standard with them in the 64 catalog and acrolites in the 67 catalog.

mike

[QUOTE=zenstat;116251]A Pioneer snare won't be 4x14 and the lugs are different between the Pioneer "bowtie" lugs and the Downbeat 4x14 "sideways" lugs. The Pioneer has 6 lugs. The Downbeat has 8. Anybody who is fit to be selling drums should be able to tell the difference between 6 and 8 lugs.

My point was, that the OP never stated that the drum was a "Downbeat", merely that it was '4x14'. Might be another brand, or even mis-measured by the seller, (whether he's "...fit to be selling drums..." is not for me to say). All I am saying is that the assumption was made after the initial post, and I'm suggesting that it might be worth confirming. Love to get my hands on a Downbeat myself.

example of what mounts not to put on your clubdate...

[IMG][IMG]http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc496/diaclone/lilclubdate.jpg[/IMG][/IMG]

but I still play the dog snot out of this kit!