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1966 Ludwig Jazz Festival Question? Last viewed: 4 hours ago

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I have a 66 Ludwig Jazz Festival. In all of my searching for months I can only find two or three of these snares in the Marine pearl white in 1966.

Plenty of other colors but in 66 this color seems to be very rare. My question is, why before and after 66 were the MPW colors so widely available but in 66 only a handful seem to show up? All examples that I have found of this snare in a white pearl 66 model, are all collector owned and not for sale. Am I missing something here? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Mine is Dated Feb 17, 1966 serial # 296407. And in very good original condition with the snare stand also.

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Posted on 8 years ago
#1
Posts: 2010 Threads: 19
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My guess would be that no wrap would have seemed more "old fashioned" in 1966 than WMP. So sales of that finish might have been down resulting in them being harder to find today.

I've never looked for a particular year myself, generally the construction details didn't vary that much from year to year. I'm not sure how many are looking for drums from a specific year (say, wanting only a 1966 drum instead of a drum made in 1965 or 1967) unless there is something special about that year (birth year, etc.). I have two or three KB snares in WMP, and to be honest never gave much thought to specifically when they were made exactly.

Most drum sets came with a metal snare, a matching wood snare was usually a special order item for someone buying a drum set out of the catalog. Not that big of a deal to request but it doesn't seem to have been a concern to most buyers.

Are you asking if this is a rare drum? My guess is that it's not particularly rare or at least perceived as such...rare would be something like oyster pink or galaxy sparkle, probably burgundy sparkle as well. Lots of WMP out there, especially if you aren't too choosy about when it was made.

Just my random thoughts...others opinions may well vary.

Posted on 8 years ago
#2
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Rare in a 1966. For sure. Rare in the Jazz Festival line? I agree Definitely not. Just seemed strange as to why they are so hard to find that year. My black oyster snare is all over the place in 66. Just not white Marine Pearl. Just food for thought. I Found it in a garage sale. Thanks for your reply.

Posted on 8 years ago
#3
Posts: 2010 Threads: 19
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I wouldn't be a bit surprised if oyster black jazz fests outsold WMP in 1966 but a 66 OBP

snare is going to sell for $2000-$4000 while an identical snare wrapped in WMP is going to bring $500-$600 tops. It's not just a case of numbers but also demand, and perception. Lots of demand for "Ringo" snares and a perception that they are hard to find (and it does seem that demand outstrips supply, no matter how many there may actually be). Probably not nearly as much demand for a '66 in WMP.

Cool to find any Jazz Festival at a garage sale. I kept hoping I'd luck into an oyster black model in that way. After twenty years of looking I finally ponied up the necessary dough to buy one off a friend.

Posted on 8 years ago
#4
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Yep ,The black one is the pretty one for sure. I don't sell them. I just can't bring myself to do it. I'm the snare pack rat. lol

Posted on 8 years ago
#5
Posts: 5550 Threads: 576
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Well mr rat how about show them off lol

April 2nd 1969 scarfed pink champagne holly wood and 65/66 downbeat snare, and , supra same year very minty kit old pies
66/67 downbeat with canister
Super 400 small round knob
1967 super classic obp





once the brass ceases to glitter, and the drum looses its luster, and the stage remains dark, all you have left is the timbre of family.
Posted on 8 years ago
#6
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From jaghog

Well mr rat how about show them off lol

Yes, please show them off! And Welcome to the forum!

-Mark

Posted on 8 years ago
#7
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I did some sorting of my list of date stamped Ludwigs and can report the following:

354 drums with reported 1966 Date Stamps.

186 of these are snare drums, broken down as follows:

1 Jazz Combo

2 Downbeats

30 Pioneers

30 Jazz Festivals

7 Marching Snares

1 - 6.5x14 Symphonic

2 - 5.5x14 Classic

42 Acrolites

1 - 10 lug Acrolite

59 - 5x14 Supraphoncs

2 - 6.5x14 Supraphonics

5 - 5x14 Supersensitives

4 - 6.5x14 Supersensitives

Of the 30 Jazz Festivals, the wrap/finish breakdown is as follows:

3 Black Diamond Pearl

1 Black Lacquer

1 Blue Lacquer

6 Blue Sparkle

1 Burgundy Sparkle

1 Champagne Sparkle

1 Gold Sparkle

4 Oyster Black Pearl

2 Red Sparkle

2 Silver Sparkle

4 Sky Blue Pearl

4 White Marine Pearl

Three of the 30 Pioneers had White Marine Pearl wraps.

Of the 354 drums with 1966 Date Stamps, the wraps/finishes on six were not reported, leaving 348 with known wraps/finishes. Of these, 35 had White Marine Pearl wrap, including the four Jazz Festivals and the three Pioneers.

Notes and Caveats:

1. This is a small sampling of the drums which were made, so be careful drawing conclusions based upon what might not be a true representative sample.

2. The list is comprised of drums either listed for sale on eBay, drum forums, Craigslist, Goodwill, other drum sellers sites and drums owned but not for sale shown in publications, drum forums or reported by their owners to me or someone else involved in the data gathering effort. The source of information may skew the results, as it is weighted toward drums for sale, not drums being held in collections or by players.

3. Not all drums have date stamps, not all date stamps are readable, and not all those with date stamps had date stamps reported.

So, as far as how rare is a White Marine Pearl 1966 date stamped Jazz Festival snare? Hard to tell. The bigger question may be the one K.O. raises - How many 1966 snares were Jazz Festival models vs. Acrolites or Supraphonics?

Collecting information about the following for ongoing research projects:
Gretsch drums with serial numbers,
Ludwig Keystone and B/O badge drums with serial numbers and date stamps,
Ludwig Standards from 1968-73, and
Ludwigs with paper labels from 1971-72
www.GretschDrumDatingGuide.com
Posted on 8 years ago
#8
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For comparison, I did the same thing for drums with 1965 date stamps. Note that very few drums have been recorded with date stamps in the first quarter of 1965. It is not entirely clear why, but it seems that many drums from mid-1964 through early 1965 never received stamps.

531 drums with reported 1965 Date Stamps. The type of drum is not known for 186 of these (just serial number and date stamp information is recorded). This leaves entries for 345 drums.

183 of these are snare drums, broken down as follows:

3 Jazz Combo

6 Downbeats

90 Pioneers

57 Jazz Festivals

6 Marching Snares

2 - 6.5x14 Symphonic

3 - 5.5x14 Classic

5 Acrolites

7 - 5x14 Supraphoncs

4 Unknown model

Of the 57 Jazz Festivals, the wrap/finish breakdown is as follows:

8 Black Diamond Pearl

2 Black Lacquer

5 Blue Sparkle

1 Blue/Silver Duco

1 Bronze Mist

1 Burgundy Sparkle

4 Champagne Sparkle

1 Green/Gold Duco

2 Gold Sparkle

4 Oyster Black Pearl

5 Oyster Blue Pearl

9 Red Sparkle

4 Silver Sparkle

4 Sky Blue Pearl

3 White Marine Pearl

4 Unknown

Seventeen of the Pioneers had White Marine Pearl wrap.

Out of all of the 345 drums for which we have more than just serial number and date stamp information, 43 had White Marine Pearl wrap, including the three Jazz Festivals and the 17 Pioneers.

Again, one should remember that the numbers above are a small and possibly not representative sample of the drums made by Ludwig during 1965. Far fewer metal drums appear on the list, so Pioneers and Jazz Festivals dominate.

Collecting information about the following for ongoing research projects:
Gretsch drums with serial numbers,
Ludwig Keystone and B/O badge drums with serial numbers and date stamps,
Ludwig Standards from 1968-73, and
Ludwigs with paper labels from 1971-72
www.GretschDrumDatingGuide.com
Posted on 8 years ago
#9
Posts: 5550 Threads: 576
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Are you selling it gary?

April 2nd 1969 scarfed pink champagne holly wood and 65/66 downbeat snare, and , supra same year very minty kit old pies
66/67 downbeat with canister
Super 400 small round knob
1967 super classic obp





once the brass ceases to glitter, and the drum looses its luster, and the stage remains dark, all you have left is the timbre of family.
Posted on 8 years ago
#10
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