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1967 Ludwig Symphonic Snare WMP Last viewed: 7 hours ago

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From zenstat

I'm a bit puzzled because this lug pattern and a 6.5x15 shell is usually called a "School Festival" and came with a P-83 strainer to begin with. The "Symphonic" was 6.5x14 (not 15) in the catalogs I'm looking at for 1964 and 1967. And yes the "Symphonic" came with a P87 classic strainer (as did the 5.5x14 Super Classic snare). But not in 15" diameter. Odd.

Now I'm curious...

I am less knowledgeable than you are, but would it even be possible to tell the difference between the Symphonic and School Festival if it weren't for the strainer?

I have a School Festival from the early 70's (still very slowly "restoring" it :p) and, luckily, it had one of those paper things on the inside with a date and type number, which made it easily identifiable.

But otherwise, what are the differences besides the strainer and the availability of a 15" diameter?

Posted on 14 years ago
#11
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Symphonic = 8 Bowtie Lugs

School Festival = 16 Small Classic Lugs

Posted on 14 years ago
#12
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I just looked at the 64 catalog and the School Festival model was available in 6 1/2x14,and 6 1/2 x 15,small classic lugs and the P-83 strainer,not bowtie lugs..The Symphonic model was available in 6 1/2x14 only,small classic lugs,and P-87 strainer,hence the 3 mounting holes on the strainer side.Drums with the p-87 were available with a P-32,and the P-88 butt.This drum ,if in fact is 15"in diameter,might be a School festival shell,but School festival shells,SHOULD have snare beds.

If this drum did in fact come with a P-87,which I believe it did,then snare beds weren't necessary,as the snare wires would have extended beyond the bearing edges.Thats my theory anyway.I think the P-87 was original to this drum and changed out for the P-83.Another 60's Ludwig mystery....i'm shocked.

Steve B

Posted on 14 years ago
#13
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Oh, right. I was thinking of Auditorium model that had the bowtie lugs. srry!

But those repaired holes still baffle me. They just don't look like they could be for a P87.

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Posted on 14 years ago
#14
Posts: 6288 Threads: 375
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A 3-pointer.... maybe Slingy or Leedy.....?

Kevin
Posted on 14 years ago
#15
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No..its a Ludwig shell for sure.The more I look at it,the more i'm convinced its a Symphonic model that originally came with a P-87 strainer that was replaced with a P-83.That would explain the 3 holes on the strainer side and the lack of ,or very shallow snare beds,as the snare wires extended beyond the bearing edges,a la Supersensitive.I think that its also a 14"drum,not 15"

Steve B

Posted on 14 years ago
#16
Posts: 6288 Threads: 375
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From tamadrm

No..its a Ludwig shell for sure.The more I look at it,the more i'm convinced its a Symphonic model that originally came with a P-87 strainer that was replaced with a P-83.That would explain the 3 holes on the strainer side and the lack of ,or very shallow snare beds,as the snare wires extended beyond the bearing edges,a la Supersensitive.I think that its also a 14"drum,not 15"Steve B

I'm referring to the filled-in holes for the previous strainer.... not the shell..........

But, that's quite a large filled-in hole on the bottom.... wouldn't be a 3-pointer anyway...

Carry on !!...LOL

Kevin
Posted on 14 years ago
#17
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From MrTurd

Now I'm curious...I am less knowledgeable than you are, but would it even be possible to tell the difference between the Symphonic and School Festival if it weren't for the strainer?I have a School Festival from the early 70's (still very slowly "restoring" it :p) and, luckily, it had one of those paper things on the inside with a date and type number, which made it easily identifiable.But otherwise, what are the differences besides the strainer and the availability of a 15" diameter?

I'm not so knowledgeable. I just have excellent reference materials and years of experience in research and writing articles (in other disciplines). So my contributions tend to come out looking clear, well reasoned, and well documented.

According to the catalogs there isn't a difference between Symphonic and School Festival except for

[list]strainer

[*]availability of 15" diameter

[/list]

This will end up unsolved unless somebody here buys the thing and documents it very carefully. There were snares produced without proper snare beds (Quality Control issues). There were snares produced which aren't in any catalog (Prototypes and Special Orders). Even if we have the snare to dissect it may be a balance of probability call and not a sure thing. Life's like that.

Posted on 14 years ago
#18
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P-83 and P-85 have the same hole spacing - the throw on the drum now is a P-83. P-87 has two holes like the P-83, but they're closer together than the P-83. So those three holes aren't from a P-87. Also in the blow-up pic you included, it looks to me like it does have snare beds, though it's hard to tell. I thought both throws used similar snare beds, but I can check that since I have one of each snare (both red sparkle) so I'll check to compare beds on the two of them and let you know.

Three point throws were used by Slingerland and Leedy, but the holes in this drum don't look far enough apart to be either of those. And the bottom hole was the same size as the top two (and not enormous like in this picture). I believe some really old Ludwigs used a three-point throw similar to the Slingerland, but it was long before this snare was made.

So my guess is there are two possibilities: 1. that the drum originally had a P-83, but it was taken off and replaced with some weird Japanese 3-point throw (see the "Appolo snare throwoff" thread - it may be that throw) until someone found an original throw and put it back on; 2. that the drum is actually cut down from a marching snare and repainted inside. That would explain the non-standard bearing edge and too new looking paint, and would also explain the large hole under the throw which could have been for an original vent.

If its the first possibility, then it is probably worth buying if you need it and can get it for a good price.

If it is the second (which is actually my guess - you could tell for sure by looking at the interior paint, the bearing edges and snare beds, and the vent grommet), then you would be better off staying away.

Posted on 14 years ago
#19
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