even more pics

yep more pics

almost gottem

That's all. I didn't mean to be so crazy with the pics, I just know that they are so helpful!

I can't add anything as far as I'd ing the drum. Looks like it spent a good part of its life in a wet environment but if the shell is solid I'd fix 'er up.

I think you probably nailed it although Im pretty sure that the walnut finish was offered at least through the 70s. The tone control knob is not correct and I've seen that knob on some MIJ snare drums. Make sure to check the plies. Your drum should have 6. You should be able to find a tone control knob and the missing strainer parts if you decide to do the refurb on it. Good luck.

I agree with MickM, this drum has seen some moisture for an extended length of time. The level of rust on the inside of the drum is a sure sign.

The lugs don't appear to have too much pitting, but they are tarnished. This applies to the hoops too.

The throw-off is a Lightning 2 (mid 70's) and was the successor (edit) to the Lightning 1 (late 60's). The lever appears to be bent too.

The tensioner is often called the "Fishtail". You are missing the piece that gives it that name.

The screws holding the lugs are the hex head style that were used through out the 70's. The rounded Philips head screws were used up until the very late 60's.

Your paper tag is the orange/white style with the Guaranteed for Life. They got rid of the "Guaranteed for Life" on the paper tags in the mid to late 70's.

I have a set of SSB drums with in the 490 to 500 serial number range and was told these should date them to late 1971 or early 1972.

I was also told around serial number 22000, the model numbers were no longer stamped, but written in ink with a marker. If your drum was in a damp environment, the inked marker model number might have just faded away.

Based on your serial number, the throw-off and the orange/white Guaranteed for Life paper tag, I am guessing your drum is from the mid 70's. Since it is a 6.5 x 14 with 16 split lugs and Walnut, the only model number is the 4153W. There was also a Mahogany 6.5 x 14 with 16 split lugs and the Lighting throw-off with model number 4190.

Good luck with your project.

- Tim

First, welcome to the forum.

You have taken a crash course in vintage Gretsch drums and done a pretty good job. You have a fun project ahead of you which will entail a lot of polishing, the replacement of a few parts and a decision on how to refinish/refresh the exterior.

Everything I am seeing is consistent with a circa 1973 drum. I do not see 60's characteristics on this drum. I think that identifying the screw heads as round and not hex led you astray a bit. You have done a good job of looking at many characteristics in trying to sort out the puzzle.

I will not repeat what others have said, other than to add some refinements based upon the serial number and other data that I have gathered:

1. The second style of Lightning throw with the center throw arm ("L2") was the successor (not predecessor) of the L1 throw (left side throw arm). The L2 first appeared at around serial number 23000 during the second time through the serial numbers. This change at roughly serial number 23000 would precede your serial number slightly, making the L2 throw consistent with your serial number.

2. There was only one serial number reset in the 1970s, occurring in about 1970-71, before your drum was made.

3. The stamp vertically across the label appears to me to be a post-factory addition, and may be the source of the markings that appear on both the label and on the outside of the shell below the key holder. I am going to guess that it was to identify the owner or the drum store. I cannot read it, but it appears to extend past the label onto the interior of the shell. It is unlike the black-out of the guarantee language that has been recorded on several drums. That was a thick black magic marker completely covering the guarantee language on the label. (See picture attached below.) Can you decipher what it says or provide some high resolution photos so that I can take a look?

Please note that as with every Gretsch dating comment I make, my approach is based upon collection and review of a large number of drums. Although I am confident that the estimates are soundly based, there remain just estimates. There are anomlies and deviations from the norm which always create challenges when dealing with vintage drums. Serial numbers were not used in strictly sequential order, but I contend that they were used in roughly sequential order. With this approach, the serial number becomes one tool to assist in dating a drum. For more info, review the thread on the Dating Guide or go to www.GretschDrumDatingGuide.com.

Rick

Thanks for the corrections, Rick. I was hoping you would chime in. :)

- Tim