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Bass drum....to hole or not to hole....that is the question? Last viewed: 2 hours ago

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Our band is currently doing some recording. I own two vintage Ludwig kits. Neither have a hole in the kick drum. Is it better for sound, especially during a recording to have the mic in the bass drum? I've had arguments with sound guys when were doing live shows about this also....some feedback would be greatly appreciated.Eye Ball

Posted on 12 years ago
#1
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From my experience I've found that good sound guys can slap a mic on whatever you show up with and have an awesome sound in a couple of minutes. The average sound guys takes a half hour and still gets an average sound. If he has any trouble he always blames it on your drum equipment. If I know ahead of time I always bring a kit that has a small 4" hole in the reso head. I also bring a small EQ blanket. I ask the sound guy what he prefers. The more you work with the sound guy the better sound your going to get.

Posted on 12 years ago
#2
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Well from my experience a complete head can create a lovely sound for certain things. Also you can dampen the front head with a coat or a pillow to create more focus. If it's not happening then whip off the front head, stick a pillow inside the drum and and up against batter.

So to summarise:

A, Complete head for that boom and rumble

B, Dampened front head for more focus

C, Head off with pillow in for that classic studio sound

As you may know you can get that head on and off in a minute without moving the drum out of place. I reckon you have more options going that way.

40's Slingerland Radio King WMP
60's Ludwig Downbeat Silver Spark
70's Ludwig Super Classic White Marine
60's Gretsch RB Champaigne Spark
70's Rogers Big R Black
90's Sonor Hilite (Red maple)
00's DW Collectors Broken Glass
00's DW Jazz Series Tangerine Glass
10's DW Collectors (Acrylic) Matt Black Wrap
10's PDP Concept Wood Hoop kit (Maple)
Proud ambassador of the British Drum Company
Posted on 12 years ago
#3
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Gerald is right about "good sound guys". I run into one about 1 in 5 gigs.

Sound guys who tell me it's my equipment richly deserve the argument they get. I work very hard to get the sound I want - musical, full, round, and rich - and don't take kindly to people who immediately want me to sound like the last fifteen guys they screwed up.

Any sound "engineer" can and should get a great sound out of a bass drum with or without a hole. I hate holes - to me they destroy the sound of a bass drum. Then again I hate drums with only one head, too. Thats' me, though.

My "secret" to being able to get a great sound out of a bass drum (any size) is to tune up, both sides. This allows to drum to really project. I muffle, but only a little (felt strip). And I always use two heads.

Bottom line is that your bass drum is as much a part of your sound as your snare drum is. It's personal, just like mine is. You shouldn't have to change or compromise your personal sound (assuming you really have one) to assuage the shortcomings of a soundman whose only claim to fame is resorting to sticking mics inside bass drums in order to get anything out of them.Mind Blowi

Posted on 12 years ago
#4
Posts: 1072 Threads: 89
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i don't concider myself a pro sound tech, but i did run sound for a group of guys, two being family, for 10yrs or so, still do on occasion. my uncle was the drummer for the majority of that time. uncle alan always used a head w/hole, at first we started w/mike in drum, but was never satisfied with the sound then he got a new mike and a stand and started setting the mike at the hole (not in). don't remember the kind of mike but it looked like a double sided mike but only one side picked up sound. i know it when i see it. wish i would of payed more attention to details, lol. anyway, by doing this we found we got a lot better sound and more control of the sound. never again will i put a mike inside the kick. control of the sound is just important as quality, as a sound guy, if you don't have control you wont have quality.

for me the kick was the key to a great all around sound, if the kick didn't sound right neither did the rest of the instruments. i always started with the kick then snare, toms, overhead. then moved to the lead guitar, fiddle, bass and accoustic guitars. last was the vocals. then we would do a run thru of a song and i would "fine tune" evrything and wha la.....awesome music all nite long. lol.

moral of story.....rether you use a holed head or not, don't put the mike inside the drum. hole or no/hole is a personal choice IMHO.

Stay Wiggly,
Robyn
Posted on 12 years ago
#5
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Well this thread has come up several times.

First everyone needs to know what style of music we are talking about and secondly what kind of drum you are using and what you are trying to accomplish.

What you might decide will depend on those factors. If you are playing pop, some kinds of rock, progressive rock, etc. you will typically lean towards more attack and definition while reducing sustain. A small to medium size hole (4" min to 6") may prove to really help both you, the engineer and producer get the sound you are looking for.

If you are performing in more of a traditional jazz setting or a roots rock situation then a much more open sound is typically called for. Then a closed reso head is an appropriate choice.

I know there are many here that have seldom or never had an opportunity to work with great engineers and that will inform their comments for good reason. However, if you are working with a great engineer then you need to consider the fact that you should be partnering with that engineer that typically knows far more about "reproducing" sounds than you do to capture a sound that you, the engineer and producer can agree on. By the way, if you do have a producer, he or she generally has the last say on what your sound is.

As to using a hole that does give the engineers multiple ways to capture your sound. A lot of engineers are putting PZM mics inside the kick on a soft pad whether it touches the head(s) or not. That mics purpose is to just pick up the low end of the drum. Then they will place a more typical mic in the port to pick up the impact. With or without a hole an engineer could also employ an inverted speaker like a Yamaha Sub-Kick to accentuate the low-end.

Having said that, one thing to consider, and I have said this before, is how much time do you have. In studios time is quite literally money. If you are trying to get a lot done in a short period of time, spending time arguing over whether or not you should have a hole in your reso head might not be the most productive use of your time. By the way, if you are working with less than great engineers, making their already frustrating job more difficult might not be the most conducive to creating good music.

Just some things to consider. Just remember when posting, what type of sound are we referring to. A John Bonham sound is great but it won't work for a lot of styles of music.

tnsquint
Very proud owner of a new Blaemire Snare 6.5 x 14 made by Jerry Jenkins "Drumjinx"
Posted on 12 years ago
#6
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From tnsquint

Well this thread has come up several times. First everyone needs to know what style of music we are talking about and secondly what kind of drum you are using and what you are trying to accomplish. What you might decide will depend on those factors. If you are playing pop, some kinds of rock, progressive rock, etc. you will typically lean towards more attack and definition while reducing sustain. A small to medium size hole (4" min to 6") may prove to really help both you, the engineer and producer get the sound you are looking for. If you are performing in more of a traditional jazz setting or a roots rock situation then a much more open sound is typically called for. Then a closed reso head is an appropriate choice. I know there are many here that have seldom or never had an opportunity to work with great engineers and that will inform their comments for good reason. However, if you are working with a great engineer then you need to consider the fact that you should be partnering with that engineer that typically knows far more about "reproducing" sounds than you do to capture a sound that you, the engineer and producer can agree on. By the way, if you do have a producer, he or she generally has the last say on what your sound is. As to using a hole that does give the engineers multiple ways to capture your sound. A lot of engineers are putting PZM mics inside the kick on a soft pad whether it touches the head(s) or not. That mics purpose is to just pick up the low end of the drum. Then they will place a more typical mic in the port to pick up the impact. With or without a hole an engineer could also employ an inverted speaker like a Yamaha Sub-Kick to accentuate the low-end. Having said that, one thing to consider, and I have said this before, is how much time do you have. In studios time is quite literally money. If you are trying to get a lot done in a short period of time, spending time arguing over whether or not you should have a hole in your reso head might not be the most productive use of your time. By the way, if you are working with less than great engineers, making their already frustrating job more difficult might not be the most conducive to creating good music. Just some things to consider. Just remember when posting, what type of sound are we referring to. A John Bonham sound is great but it won't work for a lot of styles of music.

Good professional advice Tnsquint! It's also nice to experiment "off the clock" with different kick mics (and placement), coupled w/ head choices, pre-amps, compressors etc.. if you have access to a studio. Learn some tried-and-true configurations and come up with some recipes of your own. I pay close attention to engineers when tracking to learn some tricks of the trade.

1964 Ludwig Champagne Super Classic
1970 Ludwig Blue Oyster Super Classic
1977 Rogers Big R Londoner 5 ebony
1972/1978 Rogers Powertone/Big R mix ebony
60's Ludwig Supersensitive
Pearl B4514 COB snare ( the SC snare)
Pearl Firecracker
PJL WMP maple snare
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Item may be subject to change!
Posted on 12 years ago
#7
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As Tnsquint said time is money and you have to be ready to make quick decisions, and not flap around over details. But most importantly when you become unsettled or up-tight in any way in the studio, it can undermine your performance. Forget holes and tuning etc, it's about getting the best from you.

As I said above you can survive with a complete head, but on reflection maybe just go and buy yourself a new head and put a small hole to one side in it. Fit the head BUT take your original head as well just so you have it there. Make sure you have some kind of dampening like a pillow or towel etc with you, and then just play your heart out.

Good luck!

40's Slingerland Radio King WMP
60's Ludwig Downbeat Silver Spark
70's Ludwig Super Classic White Marine
60's Gretsch RB Champaigne Spark
70's Rogers Big R Black
90's Sonor Hilite (Red maple)
00's DW Collectors Broken Glass
00's DW Jazz Series Tangerine Glass
10's DW Collectors (Acrylic) Matt Black Wrap
10's PDP Concept Wood Hoop kit (Maple)
Proud ambassador of the British Drum Company
Posted on 12 years ago
#8
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