Search
Register
Only Admins can see this message.
Data Transition still in progress. Some functionality may be limited until the process is complete.
Processing Attachment, Gallery - 173.35282%

Black Beauty Snares Last viewed: 17 minutes ago

Posts: 937 Threads: 82

Yep, It's the brass shell.

I have a Yamaha (beaded|) brass shell 6.5 X 14 concert snare. its so responsive at any playing volume. You can literally get any sound you want out of it, except the warm woody tones of course.

The older Ludwig & Ludwig models with the hexagonally beaded brass shells sound very robust due to the NOB shells. They are far too loud for most playing situations today except rock because they were designed (like the BB) to cut through the bands of the swing era. It was literally Brass (horns) on Brass (snare). The nice thing about the 5.5" BB is that it still fits in smaller ensembles but still cuts like a knife through every instrument but at a lower volume than the 6.5".

Not so sure that the 20's version is superior sound wise than the newer Black Beauty's as the same beaded bell brass shell is produced today that Ludwig has produced since the start. With the addition of triple flanged hoops on 70's forward versions, they may actually sound better then the 20's BB.

cheers!

-kellyj

"It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing..."
Posted on 13 years ago
#11
Posts: 5550 Threads: 576

the 20's shells were thicker and as with all brass as it ages it sounds sweeter good thread ,opinions on older brass drum sound verses newer also on aged wood, well we know that, so no wood shells.

April 2nd 1969 scarfed pink champagne holly wood and 65/66 downbeat snare, and , supra same year very minty kit old pies
66/67 downbeat with canister
Super 400 small round knob
1967 super classic obp





once the brass ceases to glitter, and the drum looses its luster, and the stage remains dark, all you have left is the timbre of family.
Posted on 13 years ago
#12
Posts: 937 Threads: 82

Thicker?

When I measure my new Monroe BB (weighs a ton!) against my 30's L&L NOB it's the same thickness...

My Monroe BB weighs about twice as much as my Supra. Brass is a much denser metal than Ludaloy.

Aging of metal drum drum shells is not a factor as it is with wood fibers that dry out over time.

The metal composition of brass does not change over time, so aging of metal drums is not a factor of sound modification.

Cheers!

-kellyj

"It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing..."
Posted on 13 years ago
#13
Posts: 5550 Threads: 576

im mean tarnish with time as that will change the sound as in cymbals and also different alloys too all brass compositions everyone had there formulas

April 2nd 1969 scarfed pink champagne holly wood and 65/66 downbeat snare, and , supra same year very minty kit old pies
66/67 downbeat with canister
Super 400 small round knob
1967 super classic obp





once the brass ceases to glitter, and the drum looses its luster, and the stage remains dark, all you have left is the timbre of family.
Posted on 13 years ago
#14
Posts: 99 Threads: 23

i would guess that the metal would age too. brass instruments certainly mellow and settle into a sound. like wood, i would think that it would get used to vibrating a certain way. also, i wonder that the composition of the brass they use to make the drums then versus now would differ. otherwise they'd make the new ones unaffordable too. be really interested if anybody has the inside scoop on that.

adam

Posted on 13 years ago
#15
Posts: 937 Threads: 82

Adam,

Same formula bell brass as Ludwig used in the 20's (read the ads for the Black Beauty).

I have one and play it. Same sound. Brass does not mellow or age like wood.

kellyj

"It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing..."
Posted on 13 years ago
#16
Posts: 5550 Threads: 576

2 post just getting rid of one

April 2nd 1969 scarfed pink champagne holly wood and 65/66 downbeat snare, and , supra same year very minty kit old pies
66/67 downbeat with canister
Super 400 small round knob
1967 super classic obp





once the brass ceases to glitter, and the drum looses its luster, and the stage remains dark, all you have left is the timbre of family.
Posted on 13 years ago
#17
Posts: 5550 Threads: 576

brass sheet and tubing is probably similar in quality to the brass of twenty or more years ago. Much older instruments (turn of the century and older) used brass with a less pure and consistent make up. Some companies today choose materials more on their ease of manufacture than their acoustical properties. Still, I believe the biggest differences between new and old instruments comes from the natural aging process of instruments, and the changes that take place over the years in a companies manufacturing process. According to a metallurgist , brass both relaxes and hardens to a degree as it ages. This certainly effects the way an instrument sounds and responds. It can be simulated through cryogenic treatment. Manufacturing processes can effect the hardness and thickness of the brass in an instrument. Bells usually vary significantly in thickness in different areas of the bell. These variations are critical to the instrument's sound. Even small changes in the manufacturing process effect thickness and the hardness of the brass.

on internet

April 2nd 1969 scarfed pink champagne holly wood and 65/66 downbeat snare, and , supra same year very minty kit old pies
66/67 downbeat with canister
Super 400 small round knob
1967 super classic obp





once the brass ceases to glitter, and the drum looses its luster, and the stage remains dark, all you have left is the timbre of family.
Posted on 13 years ago
#18
Posts: 357 Threads: 62

All I know is that I prefer all of my brass shelled drums to the aluminum, wood, or steel shelled versions. It to me has a certain pop that the others don't get along with a light sensitivity. It's all personal preference. I know I would love to get an old 30's Ludwig BB with the engraving. When I first saw one in a Modern Drummer mag as a teen I wanted one. I own several brass drums. I am looking for a Ludwig Acro that is in good shape. Acros and Supras all pretty much sound the same but they seem to have one every now and then that just sounds out of this world great. I keep looking for that drum. I also have a Gretsch COB that I am in the process of setting up as a gigging drum. I need cup washers for the lugs and a retroplate to mount a Trick throw off and butt plate and it is ready.

Gretsch Nitron Glass New Classic 2010 8/10/12/14/16/22
Yamaha Cherry Wood Recording Custom 1987/2005 8/10/12/13/14/16/22
Ludwig Black Diamond Pearl 1966 5x14 S.S./13/16/22
Gretsch wood finish 1959 5x14/13/16/22
Slingerland Radio King Capri Pearl 5x14 Radio King
Gretsch Silver Sparkle Catalina Club Bop 2008 18/14/12/10/5x14
Gretsch Silver Sparkle/Black Stripe Catalina Club Mod kit 22/10/12/16
Posted on 13 years ago
#19
Posts: 81 Threads: 18

Wow, thank you all for sharing your knowledge. It has been most informative.

For some reason I thought I had read somewhere that they were making an aluminum BB, but I must have been reading about the supraphonic.

I think I'm going for the 6.5x14 BB with tube lugs, triple flanged hoops, p98 strainer. Seems like an ideal fit for what I need.

Does anyone here actually own a 20-30's model?

Posted on 13 years ago
#20
  • Share
  • Report
Action Another action
Something else here