But nowadays and for the past 20 years easily DW have been the cream of the crop in modern drums and being that DW descended from Camco that says a lot. Ive been told that DW is so good cuz of the shells which are similar to that of the 60s Rogers and the hardware being top notch as well.

And even tho Rogers was originally more known in the jazz world those 60s Rogers still have a quality that Ludwig never had. And Gretsch Id hafta say is the one drum brand that has stood the test of time.

And werent Zickos one of the most popular brands in the mid 70s?

You have an affinity for DW drums that not everybody shares. They're certainly not the 'cream of the crop'. Noble and Cooley and Craviotto would hold those honors. Not saying DW are bad drums, but I think you overestimate their esteem.

Stephen

I agree. The only DW drums that come close are the very first kits DW made in the early 80's. Orangemi had a really nice one that sounded very similar to an LA Camco, even used the Camco style parts back then.

Zickos? Hardly. Very few of those sold in comparison to the majors. There may have been more Camco's sold than Zickos for that matter. Hard to say. Regardless the Zickos market share was pretty insignificant.

Why do some of you insist on calling these drums 'Camco's'? Several of you do it and it drives me nuts. It's Camcos. No apostrophe. Just like Ludwigs or Slingerlands.

Just venting. No offense intended.

Stephen

Really... Now that is interesting. So the very early DW's had the same shell style as LA Camco? Think it was it old shells they were using up?

First off, Zickos were around, but they weren't all that popular. A few guys had 'em, but I don't remember them being huge. Heck, I don't remember them being much more than a dent... a bubble maybe.

DW's are okay, but I really never fell in love with the sound they make. Dolfan54 (think) just mentioned that the first DW's had similar construction and sound as the LA Camco kits. He's pretty savvy on Camco stuff, let's find out what he knows about these first DW's. I see lots of DW kits at my friend, Dana Bentley's shop. They are built like tanks, even the thin shell ones, but they just don't move me with the 'thump'.

Well, ya know... you're right. Since I've retired, I try to watch my grammar. I had a Secretary, and she was very good at deciphering my bullet point scrawls.

Now that I'm on a fixed income, I have to keep an eye on excessive use of punctuation. I still do have a number of apostrophes, but commas and periods can run short sometimes. I used to only buy American made punctuation... now, I tend to buy whatever is on sale. I've got a few good deals on overstock commas and periods, but you have to take brackets and parenthesis along with 'em when you buy in bulk. One thing I do have a lot of is ellipses... I use 'em all the time now just to try to use 'em up! I keep the ellipses separate, since they are a bit haughty...

I've got a buddy that used to keep all his stock in a large bucket, beside his desk. Man, what a mess that was. The ellipses got loose and beat up the commas. The exclamation points and periods took off, stole a few credit cards and bought an old motorcycle... neither one of them have been seen since. That was kind of a pity too... my buddy could write quite well, but now... well it's nearly unreadable since he has no punctuation.

Thanks for the tip! :)

See, I've saved you an apostrophe that you can keep for later use. Extra points for knowing an ellipsis is three dots.

Class dismissed.

Stephen

[quote=DolFan54;248645]I agree. The only DW drums that come close are the very first kits DW made in the early 80's. Orangemi had a really nice one that sounded very similar to an LA Camco, even used the Camco style parts back then.[/quo

I am convinced the early to mid 80s DW shells were in fact left over Camco/Keller stock. Some from the Camco factory but the majority from Keller where they no doubt had quite a bit pre-made... Don Lombardi (DW) bought the hardware designs and Tama got the rights to the Camco name "and the rights to the Camco shell designs."

DW also bought "all the existing factory stock" and began making and marketing the pedals right away.

I believe since these early 80s DW/Keller shells were 6/6ply X 5/16" thick and 3/16" to 1/4" undersized, they (DW) circumvented the Tama ownership of the design of the Camco shells by utilizing different bearing edges and different shell depths. Snare Drums SDs were all 6x14", BDs 16x22 and 16x24, FTs 17x16" and 17x18" etc etc... None had standard Camco depths until they ran out of shells sometime between the mid to late 80s...

It would make sense for DW to buy all the pre-made Keller shell tubes from Keller at a cut rate price especially since Keller would have been stuck with thin, 6ply undersized tubes that would have been hard to sell.