You're welcome, and the bass drum thing is the same with most kicks you hear either live or recorded. JR is notorious for having a really clicky, lifeless kick in person, but just amazing when mic'd inside. Go figure. Very few kicks sound like they actually sound. Same goes for snares.

Bermuda

Bermuda,

That was a great tutorial. Great to see your floor tom hanging from an isolation mount by the way. So many guys have no idea how much life they take out of their drums with some of the traditional suspension methods. I am sure I will take a lot heat for this, but the mounted tom on a snare stand is a prime example. Tune your tom and hold it by the rim to hear what it sounds like. Assuming one is skilled at tuning, there should be some sweet sustain prior to adding any muffling. Then place that same tom on a snare stand and see what happens. Likewise, I picked up an early 70's Premier Olympic kit and was really pleased with the tone of the 12" and 16" tons with new heads. (coated Ambassadors top and bottom) tons of sustain with a really clear fundamental. I put the 12" on an isolation mount and it still sounded great. Unfortunately, the rubber feet were missing on the floor tom legs and when I set it up after tuning, it turned into cardboard. I ordered a set if Gibralter feet with isolation air pockets and the sound improved drastically. I'll put an isolation mount on that drum at some point as well.

I agree, and I don't think I've ever mounted a tom that way. But I think drummers do it for placement purposes, rather than because they think it will sound better if not mounted on the kick (or that the kick will resonate better as a result.) RIMS has addressed those drummers with a basket style iso mount ring, a la their floor tom mounts.

Bermuda

This is my philosophy, which causes some problems when I supply my set for blues jams. There always seems to be a new player who doesn't understand why drums that sounded so good from the front (unmic'ed) are so ringy from the throne.

Conversely, another drummer who supplies a (heavily taped) kit wonders why it can't be heard in the mix.

There tend to be more volume problems—and less dynamics—when we jam with the muffled kit because some drummers overcompensate, which leads some guitarists to turn up, and once that happens ...

I enjoy hearing my drums played by others, even if it's an approximation of what they sound like when I play them.

After working on my vistalite kit all summer, I had just finished them in time for a couple of practices and then my band's long awaited cd release show. There were 4 bands (including ourselves), and we decided we wanted to play 3rd because the time slot was perfect and we wanted to have a band follow us so we could mingle after the show and not have to pack up right away. I kept my kit set up on stage because it was too much hassle to have the last band change drum sets again, and I was lucky enough to hear my kit from the front on it's debut show, and I couldn't have been happier with the way they sounded. And was actually surprised at how authentic they sounded, and not just a bunch of eq. They really sung.

Man that's a good feeling.

Tuning drums is an art. So is pairing the right heads with the right drums. But I'm convinced that tuning is the key in the equation. Having a good guy on the board along with good mics helps, but well tuned drums is at the foundation. "Garbage in - garbage out!"

I started this thread because it gave me a real 'Alpha-Jerk' to hear my drums the way the peeps out front do. I have -rarely- shared my drums during a gig. It's actually been 15 years since the last time. This time, it was me that invited the guy to sit in so it was an unplanned opportunity. Caught me by surprise is all. The tubs sounded great... just way different than what I hear when I'm sitting behind them. It just blew my mind so I had to ask other drummers if they've ever had that experience. It's a real eye (ear) -opener. Bermuda gave some useful/practical feedback. It's so great to have working pro's around who can respond and contribute knowledge/information that they have gleaned after years of working on their craft. I'm grateful he's around and willing to let us pick his brain-pudding from time to time. I learn something new here every day.

John

I had the chance to hear my drums from out front just the other month. It was only in the local pub, with a band of 14 year old, who were awesome. I can say that it was a great opportunity to get my sound right. From my playing position, they sound completely different. The floor tom is killer. Totally thumps you in the guts. And the bass drum! Phew! I think the emad head helps, but it is great. And on the point that tnsquint made, about different drummers on the same kit, me and a friend went to see a red hot chili peppers tribute gig. And for the last song, give it away, they invited the crowd on stage. I went straight to aw the drummer, who, because we'd been talking back stage, gave me his sticks, and told me to finish the song. Which was really nice of him. Anyway, my friend told me that you could tell I was on the kit, because he noticed the style straight away. So maybe it is the drummer as much as the drums/tuning etc. Good thread purdie.