Hi again, The snare came with a 4 pc Riviera set (as pictured). I haven't done anything with the snare so I'm hoping it came in it's original state (not sure if the reinforcement rings are original or not - they certainly look like the same wood!).

Cheers.

Apologies! I was under the impression this was a new acquisition. In that case, I still think this may be the thinner shells. I really think these may be a mid 70s rather than a 60s kit. The wood of tha snare is just too familiar to me. Is it really thin? Or is just thin? I guess unless you have handled a few of them, it would difficult to really know what I am talking about.

cn679, you have had the later, super thin shells that are really just there for decoration, right? These are the ones that I am talking about. The snare is hard to tune, and even when you get it to it's best, it sounds flat and mediorce. Is that the case with this one?

Ok, I think I've got it now. So he's got two sets in blue strata (awesome looking wrap!) The first one, in the older threads, is the no-name Hoshino made set with the shark tooth lugs. This set shouldn't have re-rings in any of the drums, including the snare (please let me know if that is incorrect.)

The Riviera set, I still believe, is a Pearl made set from (I'm guessing) the mid to late 60s with re-rings in all the drums. I'm starting to think that Pearl wasn't using the Slingerland copy lugs in the 70s, or at least by the mid 70s. I think by then they were using the battleships, gold bars, and disco balls on mostly everything until they started using the standard 'diamond' lugs that we see on all the later MIJ and MIT stuff. Another reason I think the Riviera set is from the mid-late 60s is that it has the 'fat' Slingerland copy lugs. Pearl had two different types of Sling copies, the 'thin' ones and the 'fat' ones. I think that the thin ones were used earlier (and we seem to see less of these) and the fat ones are the ones we see more often on both Pearl labeled drums and on stencils (like my BDP Tempros.)

I dont know why Pearl put together a set with the clam shell lugs on the snare and Sling copy lugs on the bass and toms, but apparently they did. I could posit that the snare came from a center lug Riviera set, but that name just isn't as common as Stewart or Apollo, so I dont think that was the case - it's just a funky factory mismatched kit, which, as Osaka-bop pointed out on a different thread, Pearl had been known to put out from time to time.

In terms of the shell ply configuration, I'm not sure about the Riviera snare, but I can tell you about the two early Pearl snare I have. My WMP Jazzmaster snare (that has the same clam shell lugs) looks like it is actually 4 ply. My Pearl made red sparkle Norma snare is a very thin 3 ply shell. Unfortunately, I cant comment on the sound of these two snares as neither of them are in playing condition at the moment. The Jazzmaster needs the re-ring re-attached and has no strainer. The Norma shell has collapsed at the strainer spot. However, once I (eventually) get them up and running, I expect them to sound pretty much like the other MIJ wood snares, warm and 'smokey,' like Jonni describes, only tuned a bit lower considering how thin they are. Hopefully they wont be too difficult to tune up, but I'm not anticipating that given that they are 8 lug snares.

Well....without the ability to put my paws on this snare, it is going to be impossible to tell. However...that said, I am still of the opinion the strainer is in need of a replacement. If you have no qualms of changing the originality, and I know this is hard, but with these I do it anyway if they are shot and I don't have a good one to put back, because a "good one" doesn't exist, GC sells the great little Pearl SR-01? It looks like a small P-85, and comes with a nice butt. A very nice one at that. This is a very nice and easily operated, smooth strainer.

Your research is a bit stronger than mine, as for the types of lugs. Some of them I don't have reference to because I just don't grab the ones I don't like. Too many of these funky ones are not my cuppa. I really am trying to concentrate on the late 50s-early60s through about 75. Those are the "sweet spot" to me, and I am not really all that keen on much past the exit time of TAMA in what...73?

Yep, I agree with John about replacing the strainer if it bugs you. Unfortunately many of these old pieces just aren't as usable as we would like them to be, and every player has their own threshold of what's acceptable and what isn't. Though I usually hate at the MIT stuff, I actually have a MIT snare that I like the sound of. The strainer on it wont stay engaged after about a minute of playing, but instead of replacing it I just use a rubber band to make it stay put. Not optimal, I know, but I dont really want to screw with the drum, and it isn't worth anything so I dont bother to sell it.

The real pain in the neck is that there aren't any direct replacement parts (at least that I know of, and believe me, I've been looking.) You'd think someone would have come up with the idea, "hey, there are tons of these old import snares around and the throws all suck, I could probably make a fortune designing and producing a good replacement..." Oh well. Drilling for a new strainer really isn't that difficult if you are careful. But then of course you have the holes to deal with (but no one really cares anyway...)

About the time frame, I'd love to know the exact years that Star stopped production, when Pearl outsourced to Taiwan, etc., but it seems like that's never gonna happen because outside of the few of us, no one seems to care.

TAMA was introduced in 1974, so Star had to have ceased to function as an entity at that point. It seems I may be right about my thoughts that Hoshino group, the original Star company, continused the Star contracts it could muster, however they are much lower quality in my opinion. I will get the info for that later....

I agree with what`s been said- I have some Pearl 60s strainers that function marvelously, all the time. But I also have a few that look great and don`t actually adjust when the knob is turned - it should, but just doesn't lift the snare any more than on and off- luckily it does function on/off. I couldn`t perform with those- just for collecting.

I wouldn`t hesitate to replace the strainer if I were you- some, but not all MIJs are museum pieces.

BOL with it.

First of all, thank you all so much! CN679 you are SPOT ON! I have two 4pc kits with idenitcal wraps but different lugs and hardware config. The Riviera kit has the re-inforcement rings and still thin shells (2 or 3 ply) which is a verticle ply. My other kit (which is a no-name brand - possibly Hoshino as you say!) also appears to have the same same thin shells (2-3 ply), also vertical wood but no re-inforcement rings and nicer (in my opinion) shark-tooth style lugs! This kit appears to never have had badges since there is no small nail-type marks or discolouration on the shells where badges would of gone - hence my original post last year asking for help to identify them!

Therefore, I am extremely grateful to you all for helping me identify these. I have taken a huge interest in these kits mainly because I acquired the Hoshino in Wellington, New Zealand back in 1985 when my best friend bequested these to me after he passed away from a brain tumor at age 12. I have had them ever since - 25 years on..and restored them to a much nicer state. I must say though that aside, my favourite of these two kits (in terms of tuning, sound and looks) is actually the Hoshino as the Riviera is a pain to tune (Jonnistix - you are spot on!).

I have decided to remove the snare mechanism from the Riviera for a more modern p-type Gibralter mechanism (as I did with my Hoshino which just sounds suburb).

As soon as I do this I will tune them both and put a video on Youtube as a thanks for all your assistance!!

Cheers

Grant (Australia)

Hey Gweinst,Wait i have these strainer's that work great have alot of them in good condition,P.M. or better email ...Mikey