Do not buy that drum! Make a deal with the seller. It has a re-ring that is almost completely off the shell. It can be reglued, but use it to cut a good deal from the seller. Otherwise, nothing wrong with that drum. It's a maple 3-ply shell under the grey. A classic J-Fest shell. Fix the re-ring and it's good to go for another 100,000 miles.

John

Thanks John, so the edge looks ok to you? I'd rather not have a drum that's had the edges re-cut you see and i don't think he really knows. The price is quite low and he's not getting any takers, probably due to the re-ring. The missing muffler is a pain too. Easy for you guy over there to grab parts but way over here it costs a small fortune in shipping every time a part is required...and it's always a part i don't have in my parts pileCryBaby

I've been watching that one Andrew. It is a pretty good price for the local market. But I put that down to needing some work. It seems to me that people are scared off a cracked vintage cymbal (or in this case re-ring) and it really affects the price.

It also looks to me like the hole is too low for a blue/olive badge. That could just mean that it was an older shell drilled for a keystone and left at the back of the shelf. It's not the first one I've seen like that. But that suggests the shell is 1969 or earlier and then sat around. But in that case when did the Granitone go on it? Granitone (aka Lud-Code) appears about 1971. Odd. Doesn't affect the tone of course, just what you might want to pay. But then I can afford to be picky because I've already got mine.

Also, the serial number (1208xxx) seems a bit too high for a P-85 12 hole blackface (the 2 hole came in at 106xxxx (1973 approx). Odd.

Data on dates from Serial Number Based Dating Guides for Vintage Ludwig Drums, by Richard E. Gier. Rebeats 2013.

Thanks Steve. There are just a few question marks with this drum for me. It could certainly be had for cheap but I don't need it. It may have been pieced together or had a replacement strainer, or sliding part of the strainer I guess. Then again, $200 doesn't buy much in the way of a snare here.

That drum, complete and in good working order can bring $450 - $500. If you can grab it cheap, the repair to the re-ring is a breeze and who uses a muffler on a snare drum? I wouldn't let the missing muffler stop me if I could get the drum for a great price. Moongel is cheap and if you don't want to spring for Moongel, a Gummy Bear, or your wallet will do as well!

It's a nice drum, grab the bargain if that is what it is.

John

John, the muffler's the least of my concerns. I've never seen, or noticed, a B&O badge that isn't centered on the panel between the lugs. Or is this just one of those Ludwig things that happen?

I always have heard that Ludwig started the granitone interior in the later 70s. Am I wrong?

As I say, I've seen one Jazz Fest before which had the same low b/o badge, and it was also Blue Sparkle as it happens. That was for sale in the USA maybe a year or two ago. And as it happens, the 12" tom on my Jazzette kit has a low B/O badge. For comparison it has a serial number of 760xxx. That's the sort of serial range you would expect. Right on the changeover (now pushed back to 7492xx rather than the 750xxx previously estimated for keystone to blue/olive).

But this one on TradeMe could be legit since we always say "with Ludwig anything can happen". Although a lot of the old anomalies have been smoothed out since 2013 with the much more complete understanding of serial numbers and dating and associated changes. A number of the old anomalies were due to lack of data when The Ludwig Book was first published, and several of the online serial number guides were compiled.

You can't be wrong, because whatever you heard is whatever you heard. However, the current best estimate having cleaned up a few problems with previous dating guides is this:

Granitone (aka Lud-Cote) first appears at approx 850xxx and goes to approx 1620xxx. The dates (based on best estimate from those drums with both serial numbers and date stamps) is approx 1971 to approx 1976. Personally I wouldn't call that "later 70s".

Remember that this info is based on a very large set of new data (collected by several people independently including Mike Layton and me, as it happens) which has been carefully analyzed and reported by Richard Gier. The number of drums turning over on eBay has meant that we have vastly more data then ever used before. The only question for me now is how to we get people weaned off quoting the old dating guides which have been superseded by new data and analysis?