Yeah, I'm pretty happy with how it sounds. The 19.5" intriguing to me...wish I knew who made it.

Hey AR, check out this thread I started recently:

http://vintagedrumforum.com/showthread.php?t=65375

My cymbal also measures 19.5". I believe these were Italian made (maybe by UFIP?). Mine has more of a "B8" color to it, but it sounds very good, like an Old A without any of the "tinniness" of a B8 cymbal. I had a cymbal that was stamped "CB 700" at one time and that was also a 19.5" and was similar in color to my Atlas.

I think the 19.5" is a metric size (I know that 50 cm is equivalent to 19.685 inches).

Enjoy your cymbal!

V

I've had one CB-700 piece to analyze and the results say Brass (CuZn36). That one was Tosco made and this fits with other information that Tosco made most if not all of the CB-700 cymbals. Tosco might not have made all of the CB-700 cymbals, and some might be B8 alloy. In Italian Vintage Drums and Cymbals (p124) Luca Lucaino states of Tosco

"The economic line was Solaris in B8 alloy".

although it appears some are Brass. But until we get more samples and info this is what we have.

http://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/Alloys#Brass

Italian does not equal UFIP, and UFIP does not equal Rotocast despite what eBay sellers continue to claim. Tosco was always a separate company and never used Rotocasting. Atlas does appear on the UFIP stencil brand list but CB-700 does not. There is more evidence than that for CB-700 being Tosco produced based on cymbals which have both the Tosco Solaris trademark and the CB-700 trademark. See the attached images.

And yes manufacturers in metric countries often use a setting of 50 cm on their edge trimming machine as the closest equivalent to 20 inches. See the diameter ink on that Tosco Solaris: 20" cm 50

Because of the number of countries involved (Turkey, China, Italy for a start) being undersized doesn't tell you manufacturer or country all on its own. Edge trimming is approximate and done early in the production process, so 19.5" is close enough in a finished cymbal once it has been through the rest of the production steps.

I really don't know how to identify this cymbal since there are no stamps etc. The size is the biggest things that makes it different. One person mentioned to me that it could have been a 22" ride that was cut down and the stamp cut off in the process.

Very unlikely story. Once again, the diameter (undersized 20") is the standard for cymbals from Italy. There isn't anything unusual to explain! A 22" ride which is cut down (and not also reshaped) will have a very different profile at the outer edge. That cymbal just looks like your standard nominal 20" Italian cymbal in terms of profile and bell size and lathing style, and what I can glimpse of hammering style in your video. I've documented many Italian cymbals which just have ink stamps and those get removed by cleaning over the years, so you don't need to look for a major modification like cutting down to explain lack of a trademark pressed into the metal.

I can't say Italian "beyond reasonable doubt" because cymbals from China and Turkey are also undersized. It looks more Italian to me on other grounds, but then there are Chinese made Western style cymbals from the Wuhan province which have been around since the early 2000s and also have fine tonal groove lathing like that one appears to have. But I'd say Italian on "balance of probability". I could say a bit more if I had decent quality still photos to see more detail. But what I see makes me think of one Italian style of lathing. The blue arrows point to rings which are created by the lathe operator lifting the tool briefly and then restarting rather than making one continuous pass.

[img]http://black.net.nz/cym2014/ItalianLathing.jpg[/img]

The red oval is marking a patch of suspected lathe chatter which isn't germane to this discussion. Since you have the cymbal in your hand you can look more closely at rings and tonal groove size. For a comparison of lathing styles used by the Avedis Zildjian company check out

http://black.net.nz/avedis/hammering.html#h-trans

which is a detailed review of hammering but includes lots of lathing examples from different production eras. I don't see anything particularly Avedis Zildjian in the lathing on yours. But then I'm working from your video and that one fuzzy photo which started us off.

Thanks for the info! If I remember when I get home, I will try to take some decent pics of it to upload.