My 69 Sky Blue Pearl Clubdate bass drum has the disappearing spurs. I've seen downbeat bass drums with them as well. So certainly not out of the question there. The two 13's could have been a special order. When you turn them around so that the badges face the front, do they line up ok?

Mike

Catalog sets were just suggestions and you could specify other hardware or sizes when ordering up a set. Dealers (and the unimaginative) may have ordered exactly what was on the catalog page but most of the time you were going to have a to wait a bit for your drums to be built anyhow (Ludwig did not have warehouses full of "Hollywood" sets in every color all boxed up and ready to go) so it was pretty easy to specify various changes in details if so desired.

I've seen these spurs on many of Ludwig's kits from the 60's, especially on the Club Date and Jazzette. I've even seen them on some very early 60's Super Classic kits. However, to see them on a 1969 kit does seem a bit odd, especially when the newer, and better arc spurs were already being used. True, that you could customize a kit almost anyway you wanted, but having dual 13" rack toms in 1969 is also a bit odd! Yes, I know that Mr. Moon and others may have done it...but it's still odd!

Hi Mike, let me first say thank you for the educated reply. Yes, the 'second' 13" rack tom does sit properly, badge to the audience and seam to towards player. I made sure of that before I decided to get in to this kit. I'm relieved to hear that a Clubdate and some Jazzette kits had the disappearing spurs. I was starting to get a little nervous, thinking perhaps someone years ago tried to fake a lower end kit for a Hollywood.. But that would be way too much work, and they also may have had to pirate keystones from another kit.. (I know for exmlpl that a "Standard" had very diffrnt badges) Wouldn't make any sense at all.

Actually, this is getting interesting now, because the orig buyer apparently did get in to some special ordering.. The two rack toms are Feb 28 and Feb 3. The floor tom is Feb 3, and the kick is Feb 4, all 1969, so it's a single purchase kit, I'm pretty certain. Maybe he or she, thought the disappearing spurs were cool, and specified them. That, along with the two toms could make the kit, well, interesting.. maybe not any more collectible, but certainly less common..

any thoughts?

K.O. : As I indicated to Mike, thank you for the educated reply. Your info is very helpful to me, espesially as far as the ordering, and the Dealers or less-informed, may have just pointed to a picture and ordered the kit like that. Brilliant.. Here I am, 36 years a drummer, (I do still have the day job) and I really never thought about how drum sets were purchased new, way back when.

That makes a lot of sense, and I see now how, logically, this could happen.

Thanks again. dan

Thanks as well, idrum.. Confirming that one could order a kit pretty much any way, and that you know those spurs from other kits.. That puts my mind at ease.. I know now that several combinations are possible. Yeah, it is odd, about the two 13" toms.. But it's starting to make sense.. The orig buyer could, I see now, have ordered this kit just like it sits.. As mentioned, all the date stamps make sense..

13" Left rack tom: Feb 28

13" Right Rack: Feb 3

16" Floor: Feb 3

22" Kick: Feb 4

So maybe there was a 12" Feb 3rd rack tom that remained at the plant, which otherwise would have shipped with this kit. (?)

Thanks again all. dan

Dan

The first hollywood kits from the late 50's and through sometime in 1965 had two 12 ride toms. Other manufacturers as the time also did the same. I have seen a few dual 13 60's Ludwig kits that were thought to be and appeared to be original as well. Many drummers were moving towards larger drums/sounds in that period. So two 13's makes perfect sense to me. Your drums looks spectacular, by the way. What snare did they have with them? Supra?

Mike

Thanks Mike, yeah they're good looking drums, thank you. No snare, I bought these as a shell pack, locally about 4 mos ago, for myself and a Family member to play at the house. (I have two 5pc kits in storage, because they take up a little more space, w/ the deeper kickdrums and all) Anyway, I have these Ludwigs on Reverb.com. I put them @1800.00 with the make offer option available. Seemed like a realistic price.

Now that I'm understanding more about the merchandising and ordering back then, it seems like they may be a bit more on the rare side than some others... At first, I was thinking, well, the player's right 13" rack tom would have to have been the special order, but no, of course not.. The left rack tom would be the special order, because it would have replaced the 12".. So the Feb 28 date on my left tom, does now make sense to me.. The other rack tom is Feb 3 and the Floor tom is Feb 3 and the kick is Feb 4.

The bearing edges are fairly worn, and it does seem possible that there was some gluing or repair work at some point on one of the toms.

But the shells are in pretty good shape overall.. and I believe that the wraps are all orig.. They tuck in to the wood plys.. I think that's a good sign..(?)

More photos....