I think the most common mod I've seen in nearly 20 years of collecting is a '60s Ludwig with a rail and added dbl. tom mount like the one that this thread is about.

It's so common, it's almost "acceptable"...

Finding this Vintage Drum Forum has been a new experience for me…I am not very savvy in this field.

I have no idea if these drums are 1960 or 1963.

I just played them.

wflkurt,

The snare drum serial number is 15791. Whatever model that makes it???

The Bass drum and original 9x13 will be of that era…. Unfinished interior shell mahogany finish. (They were bought at the same time.)

The second photo below shows the original 9x13 mount on the drum,perhaps that might dates three of these drums,including the bass and snare.

I have seen numerous photos of the rod rail mount that connects to the tom ...but fewer of the type shown on the shell of the 9x13 ...a sleave type of mounting....in photo #2.

The floor tom was purchased (new) shortly after the original three drums (perhaps 6 months later)---white finish inside the shell.

All of these drums were purchased new in Montreal from Peates Musical Supply the principal Ludwig dealer.

The later added (second hand) 9x13 has a white finish inside the shell.

I don’t know what model these drums are or how to tell the difference between model years.

The photo below is the earliest photo I have of these drums.

I think I was 14 or 15 years old when I got these drums.... I am 64 now.

David

Rich K.

Thanks for your input.

Nice drums. I wouldn't regret anything you did to them. You played them, got great use out of them. NOBODY would have known about the values, and even as recent as 15 years ago there were plenty of 60s Ludwig sets around for under $500 and some for way less. There still are instances where an old Ludwig set is taken to a thrift store and donated. Basically what I'm saying, is even though the collectible value was hurt by your loading the tom post mount on the bass, you got so many times over the use out of them over the years. If you ever decide to sell them, it might hurt, no matter how much or how little you sell them for. Such is the difference between intrinsic and monetary values.

BTW.. I think your set looks totally awesome the way it is. If you sell them, be sure to tell the story of how you purposefully altered them so they'd be a better-playing set. They could still sell for some nice coin. They don't make those oyster colors like they used to.

BTW#2..I picked up Jimmy Smith Cool Blues CD at a garage sale and listened to it.. That guy is the godfather of Jazz B3 if there ever was one!

And Bernard Purdie.. I'll never forget the time when as a kid on his 14th birthday, I got to go see Jeff Beck and the Mahavishnu Orchestra (Version 2) live.. A big black dude gets on the drum set during the sound check, testing the drums for the sound guy, and he starts messing around.. Plays a fill.. the crowd eggs him on, thinking he's just a stage hand testing the drums for the soundguy. He gets a bit braver, apparently due to the crowd's impatience waiting for Jeff Beck and we're encouraging him.. Next thing he starts jamming full bore.. The guy's cookin'! House lights go down, Jeff Beck and the rest of the band come out, and it was non-stop jazz-funk-guitar-rock! That was Jeff's heyday. And Bernard "Pretty" Purdie's heyday as well. He is soooo badass at the drums and the Purdie Shuffle.. What a show!

I have a cousin in Montreal who plays Hammond. He's not an "old guy" -- he'd be about 30 -- but perhaps he'd be interested in a jam with you?

He also plays Farfisa in a surf band called The Treblemakers. The best way to find him would be through their MySpace page: http://www.myspace.com/officialtreblemakers

David, I did not know that the snare had a serial number. I mistakeny thought you said it had a WFL badge. Your drum is a supraphonic. The first supraphonics came out around 1958 but they were originally called suoer 400. Those drums had a brass shell. Sometime in 1962 or so the shell composisition change to a metal that Ludwig dubbed "Ludalloy". This is the more common shell and it is not worth as much as the brass shelled drums. They still sound great though and are my all time favorite snare drums.

Your set(at least the bass and tom) look more like 1960-61 dums. The white paint showed up around 1961 and the drums prior had that mhogany interior. A lot of times the drums are stamped with a red ink date stamp and can be hard to read against the dark wood. Does your bass and tom badge have a serial number?

The other thing that makes me believe that they are older is that the placement of your rail mount is where WFL was putting it in the 50's. I think the location changed around 1961. The legs on your bass drum are also the 50's type. It's still a very cool set with a great history. Thanks for all the pics and let us know if there are any date stamps in that bass and tom.

-Kurt

Hey! You played for the Fifth Dimension?!?!

Up, Up and awaaaay, in my beautiful, my beautiful... BA-LOOOOOON!

wflkurt,

The answers to your questions.

Very clear date marking on the original 9x13 Sep 9 1960-Photo #1

No serial number on the badge-Photo # 2

Date marking on bass drum shell Nov 3 with an obscured year marking-Photo # 3.

The Bass drum badge is the same as on the 9x13 with no serial number.

The badge on the snare drum with serial # 15791. Photo # 4.

David

Drm2m - love those photos - especially the blue oyster Ludwig shot with your son on it- those drums look surperb- timeless. thanks for sharing.

Thanks for the photos David. The badge on your tom and bass drum are called the transistion badge. It came out around 1958 and lasted until 1960-possibly early 1961. The transistion badge was used to identify the Ludwig name being bought back from Conn. Conn. bought the Ludwig and Ludwig drum company from WFL senior at the beggining of the depression. When WFL senior decided to have another go at making drums in 1936 he quickly found out that he could'nt use the name Ludwig anymore. The name was changed to WFL and remained that way until Conn decided to get out of drum making in 1954. WFL drum company bought the name back and became Ludwig again.

Since WFL senior always used up old stock as to not wast money, Ludwig badges were not issued until around 1957 or 58. Your tom and bass most definately came together and the bass drum should be 1960 as well. What is the badge on the floor tom? I know you said it was purchased later so I am guessing it has a regular keystone badge with a white shell interior. Thanks for all the info.

-Kurt

wflkurt,

Thanks for all your observations and interesting input regarding these drums.

The photo below shows the badge on the floor tom.

White interior shell-no serial number.

What date did the white interior and regular keystone badge become a standard.

I found an old high school Dixieland band photo dated early 1961 which does not show the floor tom….if the photo was dated correctly.

(My mother was pretty good at dating photos.)

The floor tom came slightly after the 9x13 and bass drum…but I can’t remember exactly when???

Thanks also to everyone else that has responded to this thread….it has been an interesting learning experience for me.

A lot of great info and knowledgeable people on this Forum.

David