By the way, as an aside, I love the p86 Millennium throw-off. I have it on three drums. Very simple design, very effective and seems very strong and reliable.

If you notice , as I have noticed from images of newer Ludwig drums. That keystone badge is thicker than the original 60's flat keystone badges. Plus the spacers, "which I am not a fan of", and throw, which is nice, die cast hoops. Looks like a modern Ludwig snare. Also seems to be built like a tank. Probably a very nice snare. Looks like the same type badges on these drums.

The drums you posted vibes are the keystone series drums. They used a much larger keystone badge different from the Monroe Ludwig badge from the 80 up until about 2012-13. I'm not even positive if Ludwig even offers that badge as an option anymore but the badge changes started with the legacy line and eventually the classic maples got a badge makeover when Ludwig started making the recycled trumpet badges in 2013. Ludwig also stopped stamping badges with a serial number around 2014-2015 instead opting for a sticker inside the shell that has a serial number and a bar code printed on the sticker.

I am willing to bet that the drum in question is a legacy from around 2010-2011. Ludwig did date stamp drums and while they are not always as easy to read as a 60's Ludwig they can be read.

Oh and another sign of newer Ludwig drums other than the obvious Monroe NC address is the badge placement. This is helpful to know when looking at a drum with a crappy pic. Badges on toms and snare were raised in late 1969 to allow the new B/O badges to look properly placed. Since the shape of the B/O badges had the badge sit lower than a keystone, the holes had to be moved up to allow the change. Ludwig never switched the badges back to the small keystone location and currently the tom badge placement and snare drum badge placement remain in the same location that badges were moved to in late 1969.

Bass drum badges were also moved to the players side in 1981 to make room for the large triangular modular mount that Ludwig came out with. The large mount forced the location to the front of the bass drum thus putting the badge at the back where Ludwig still generally puts a badge. I tried in 2012 to get the badge on my classic maple set to the front and I was told no. Things may have changed since 2012 but I'm not positive.

Great info wflkurt ! I actually had that pic saved because I tried a few years ago

to order that Apple glass glitter wrap on another Ludwig premium series, and they just would not do it. So I didn't place the order.

Thanks Vibes. It's funny because Ludwig is doing a lot of cool stuff lately and I am actually alive to remember this stuff instead of doing research on drums from 40-50 years ago. I am starting to think I should try and do a detailed documentation of modern Ludwig drums from about 1985-present as I have been seeing more and more questions asked about classic maples, older classic series drums and the newer stuff from the last 10 years or so. I certainly don't know all of it and I may have to do a bit of research to get things kind of accurate and slowly update things as time goes on and I correct mistakes. I'm thinking this could be helpful in the future.

And if you go back to the picture of my kit posted earlier in this thread you can see this badge placement in action. My kit is on the cusp of the changeover. You can see the B/O badge on the 12" tom is in the lower position because the hole was drilled for the last of the keystone badges in 1969. Since that photo was taken I've also got a matching WMP 1970 B/O Jazz Festival snare with the same lower badge (thanks to Mike Layton). That B/O snare from the same time as my kit was too good to pass up, even though I already had a matching 1963 Jazz Festival which is the one shown in the picture.