Very interesting.
I've used vintage hardware for the past 22 years without incident.
It's light, unobtrusive, and in my experiences, reliable.
Of course, I've never been of the "Swing and clobber" mindset when it comes to playing...so I guess the hardware leads an easy life.
This could probably open up a whole discussion about using the proper equipment for the job.
There's no need to cut butter with a chainsaw.
Wow - I did not expect this poll/thread to take off like this, as I figured it must have been discussed before. (sure it has)
At the same time, "it looks like we've got a ball game here!" as it is tied right now!
Another reason I wanted to throw this up there is because of boom stands. I have never seen a 'vintage' flat-based boom stand. I suppose it may be because they didn't come around until more recent decades????? Have you ever seen one? Pics Please!
Notice my setup includes a Pearl boom arm. Could someone date that for me? It does fit the theme, as, for the most part, all my flat based HW is MIJ. I wish I could replace it with something less bulky and modern, though I may just eliminate it with a straight up piece.
John
i don't gig much , for a few years, now; but when i did it was flatbased all the way and will be in the future, when i pick it up again.
the generalized idea ,that flatbased stands are flimsey and bound to break , so you need stands that are built like a tank, is a myth. what is the relationship between the leg format and strength or stability? there are tripod stands that are cheap crap and there are flat based stands that are cheap crap too. as far as stability is concerned, that is primarily a factor of leg length and the overall design of the clamps and upright tubes. tripod stands can have short or flimsey legs , light duty clamps and light guage tubing, as can flat based------so from the stand(DOH)point of strength and stability, they are potentially equal.
where flat based stands win hands down is in compactness of settup , ease of settup and breakdown and compactness when transported and stored. the problem with flatbased stands is ,---- that most of the really good ones are no longer being made. they are out there and often quite cheap, though. most are of European mfg., so shopping for them on the Wichita craigslist, might be futile. if you want really great ,light ,strong flatbased stands , look to Europe . i just bought 12--a couple of hi-hats included, from 3 different sellers out of Germany for a grand total of around 300.00 including shipping----some of them are almost new. they will go with some very nice vintage kits for a whole new generation of vintage enthusiasts to appreciate.
I tend to use Premier 70's Lokfast flush base if at all possible. Sometimes a particular gig may demand I use modern heavy weight stuff but I avoid it like the plague. Some of the most impressive flat base stands I have used are the 60's Camco which appear like those made by Slingerland but in actual fact have a very heavy weighted base which makes them very secure on stage. Also have used Ajax, Sonor, and Trixon spring loaded flush based stands but while convenient few can withstand the rigors of constant breakdown and heavy usage (which is the reason so few have survived). Must confess however that I like the modern Pearl hi-hat stands which are heavy as hell and bulky. I frequently will use one along with the old flush base snare and cymbal stands because their mass and spurs resist sliding and creeping across the stage. While not technically flush base, the 60's/70's Ludwig Atlas tubular tripod stands are quite functional and lightweight. Last but defintely not least, I give high praise to the complete lineup from Meazzi Hollywood President of Milan, Italy, which invented and sold a 'hybrid' combination of flush base folding stands with added 'tripod style' brace arms affording stability and strength to the stand legs and maintaining light mass and ease of packing. When assembled the bottom three legs angle slightly downwards rather than flat flush on the floor, but when folded up for travel fit snug and flush against the central tubing -- Genius! Unless I'm mistaken these Meazzi stands can still be accessed through Giannini Drums of Switzerland and a few other Eu drum companies. For anyone reading who's not familiar with these stands I highly recommend downloading the Meazzi Hollywood catalogs from Drumarchive.com and checking them out. It's about time we drummers began demanding our FLUSH BRACE RIGHTS!
flowers2
I have to use the heavier hardware as many, if not most of the drummers I supply gear for would pretty much destroy the lighter stuff. To Calfskin's point on the subject, I will say from an engineering standpoint, quality flat base stands really can't compete with comparable "modern" design stands simply due to the lateral support afforded by the diagonal bracing on the current tripods. A flat base stand creates a much larger lever and therefore will not tolerate the potential lateral loads that are often applied to them regardless of tubing guage or tripod length. That is why you wouldn't see much in the way of flat based boom stands (I am aware of Premier's Lokfast booms but you don't see them making them anymore) That is also why it can be tricky to suspend toms from a flat based stand. There is a huge difference in supporting a vertical element that is 66" tall from 4" off the ground vs. 4" and 12" off the ground with the diagonal force applied to the exterior of the tripod legs. The triangle is pretty much the strongest engineering structure available after all.
Having said that, really you should use the gear that is right for you. If you are not an overly hard player, the flush base stands would be perfect and save your back and budget at the same time. While they had an issue of the wing bolts stripping, the Lokfast stand is the classiest way ever to suspend a cymbal in my opinion. Those stands we're works of contemporary art when every other manufacturer was, and still is, creating something that is simply functional. So my vote is that I have to use the heavy stuff, but choose the correct tool for the job.
The spring leg stands-----Ajax, Trixon and Amati; all have a similar principle and like all mechanical equipment there are weak spots. Since they work perfectly well, continuously ---for maybe 100, 200 breakdowns and settups and then something happens---where is the problem? It's actually with the user. The biggest faux-pas is---since the leg needs to slip over a sub-leg in order to lock, it needs to be lubricated. After a couple of hundred uses, a little bit of heavy grease on the sub-leg stub will alleviate any future problems. It also , stops wear between the two parts ,so the leg stays tight and firm and stable.
I collect mid-late 70's Pearl single-braced stands.Stable,not rattly,generally cheap.My ride is on a double braced Pearl with a short boom.Snare is a Lokfast top-Pearl base.I stopped using flat based stands when I could buy tripods-like 1972-lost a Zilco 18"crash due to a tipover.No flat bases since then.
I have to use the heavier hardware as many, if not most of the drummers I supply gear for would pretty much destroy the lighter stuff. To Calfskin's point on the subject, I will say from an engineering standpoint, quality flat base stands really can't compete with comparable "modern" design stands simply due to the lateral support afforded by the diagonal bracing on the current tripods. A flat base stand creates a much larger lever and therefore will not tolerate the potential lateral loads that are often applied to them regardless of tubing guage of tripod length. That is why you wouldn't see much in the way of flat based boom stands (I am aware of Premier's Lokfast booms but you don't see them making them anymore) That is also why it can be tricky to suspend toms from a flat based stand. There is a huge difference in supporting a vertical element that is 66" tall from 4" off the ground vs. 4" and 12" off the ground with the diagonal force applied to the exterior of the tripod legs. The triangle is pretty much the strongest engineering structure available after all. Having said that, really you should use the gear that is right for you. If you are not an overly hard player, the flush base stands would be perfect and save your back and budget at the same time. While they had an issue of the wing bolts stripping, the Lokfast stand is the classiest way ever to suspend a cymbal in my opinion. Those stands we're works of contemporary art when every other manufacturer was, and still is, creating something that is simply functional. So my vote is that I have to use the heavy stuff, but choose the correct tool for the job.
all true but; flush based stands allow the user to bring stands in closer and booms may end up not being necessary( many modern drummers are prone to equipment overload, anyway) and there is often a lack of consideration of leg placement and boom balancing.
there's a bit of a Neil Peart syndrome out there---that tons of equipment and lots of flailing and thrashing thrashing can make up for talent.
all true but; flush based stands allow the user to bring stands in closer and booms may end up not being necessary( many modern drummers are prone to equipment overload, anyway) and there is often a lack of consideration of leg placement and boom balancing. there's a bit of a Neil Peart syndrome out there---that tons of equipment and lots of flailing and thrashing thrashing can make up for talent.
No doubt!! While that is true, I still have to supply what my clients need. Pop and rock drummers generally play harder than their counterparts in the 60's and 70's.
It would also depend, for me personnaly, what gig I was playing and if I was the one doing the lifting. Fortunately I never have to do the lifting these days. It's either stage hands, forklifts or both.
