I have a Maple Custom Absolute kit with Nouveau lugs. I can hear a very noticeable difference in the 10" and 12" between my tuning them and then mounting them on the YESS mounts on the bass drum. I am pretty careful to not run the hex rod all the way through to the shell, but I still hear it choking somewhat. So that is one issue. The other is that now my technicians have to keep up with an additional set of mounting hardware for that particular kit as opposed to just using "L" arm mounts like we do on every other kit in my inventory. Standardization is key to quickly getting gear ready to go on the truck and also to not accidentally forgetting something thus having an upset client.

The only reason I have not installed a couple of isolation mounts already is the nouveau lugs are tough enough to deal with as it is. I am not entirely sure how much fun they will be with an isolation mount. We change a LOT of drum heads around here!

Johnny, you are correct in that vintage drums do not have as much sustain with a round over bearing edge, but I do notice a difference in the tone of the drum when suspended vs. standard mounting techniques. I also hear a distinct difference when using air cushion feet as opposed to standard feet. That isn't everyone's preferred sound, but I always start there and then dial it in for a specific application. Over the last few years the trend has moved back to pretty dead drums. Not just vintage drum sounds, but "dead" drum sounds. I have some ideas as to why that has been happening but I will leave that for another day. I can always deaden an open drum, but if a client is looking for a more open tone I sure don't want them to tell me the drum sounds a little choked to them.

Funny you should say that because I have two (sort-of) Yamaha maple custom absolutes both with yess mounts and one has the nouveau lugs and that's the one that I hear a definite choke going on between tuning and hanging it on the bass drum. Maybe it

s the nouveau lugs???

You wouldn't think so with only one point of contact per lug, but you are correct: that is indeed odd. I am not a fan of the nouveau lugs. It was a really nice idea and the execution in manufacturing is pretty flawless but I find them time consuming to tune. Since you can't start at a nominal finger tight torque I find I have to tune the drum up a little higher then normal, get all the lugs in tune and then drop it back down to pitch. As always, I drop a little below pitch and then back up to it. I don't know for sure if it matters but I never tune down (loosen) to the final target pitch of the drum. Doing that is an additional step that seems a little time consuming. Plus, when I take a head off, I like to pull the tension rods out of the rim and give the rim a quick cleaning. Very time consuming with nouveau lugs to the point where I generally do not do that.

Sorry for the hi-jack, a detour down the lonely road to Nouveau Lugs.

I agree 100% I have to call BS on anyone finding a PURE TONE by suspension guys use your head their is no such thing as pure tone... there are so many variables it would take a whole book to cover them all....heads, tension, wrap or plain wood and a gazillion others ..I have used the hardware that came with drums for over 45 years 100's and 100's of live gigs ,recording a bit of it all and i have listened to thousands of drums live there is no difference...

Now if you want to hit the drum by its self in a accoustic room and with the proper equipment to measure the resonance then maybe but who ever made a living in a room by himself playing one drum at a time?

I've spent nearly $1000 on Gauger RIMS for all my kits. I leave them unmolested in case I sell. The Gauger are light and have a feature none of the others have - the small sliding tabs that you can adjust to make sure the drum is really floating. I record my drums almost every time I play them and the difference is major, to say the least. I don't like carrying stands for toms much so my next gigging kit will be a restored Rogers 9/72 set with original hardware and RIMS fitted too. I love vintage drums but I don't use any vintage hardware.

With all due respect, when I put a drum on a standard mount and hear a very noticeable difference then that is decidedly not "BS". Drummers have been using standard hardware for years. That does not mean there isn't a difference. Whether or not you have heard that difference I cannot say but it is assuredly there and that is a fact that does not require a special room or testing equipment; just my ears. Whether or not that differnece matters to you is up to you and that is a subjective decision.

By the way, there are guys that make very good livings playing one drum a time and they are called drum techs. A good drum tech will make a good drummer better.

I'll have to put a chalk mark in the "suspension mounts DO work" column. The difference is tremendous, particularly in the mid to low tunings. If you tune your drums up high and tight, then it makes almost no noticeable difference if you mount the tom on the shell-mounted hardware, put the drum on a snare stand, or use a suspension mount. So, if you play jazz or funk or any other style that people like to tune the drum up until it chokes, suspension mounts don't make sense. For the mid to low tuning range of a drum, however, it really allows the drum to sing. It makes a BIG difference! I can't imagine somebody not being able to hear the difference after A/Bing...

With all due respect gimmicks and smoking mirrors, you are again putting the drum in a by it's self situation put it in the mix of a live recording make the recording in the same room,same volume with the only difference is one is a rims mount and one is not there will be no difference any human being buying the recording can tell! and I never let any drum tech tell me how my drums should sound he does not have my ears and if I want his opinion I will hire him for it. Unless a tech is on the road with you every day he has no idea who you are as a drummer what your music is supposed to sound like etc etc he is just giving his opinion on how they should sound and if that is the case what does the band need you for? (not you personally)

Where are the individual thinking drummers today? everyone is stuck in this high tech canned music bubble it is really sad the innovators of the 50's 60's and 70's those guys get my respect not the canned sound of today's music....

Mike,

Obviously you have an axe to grind that really has very little to do with how one mounts their drums. I completely understand the difference is very minimal when heard over the context of an entire mix, however, the difference is very noticeable to me and that, in turn would have an impact on my playing. Times have moved on, innovations have been made, some good and some not worthwhile. If the hardware designed in the 50's and 60's was so great, that is all we would be using today but as we all know much of it was doggerel, so much so that we ordered new drums without the hardware so we could put something better on it.

As to what a good drum tech (not just a kid that sets up your drums) can bring to the table:

- there are a lot of drummers who, quite frankly, are not very good at tuning their drums. A good drum tech will be good at that and should also be good at discerning what is appropriate for your style of music and mic situation. A drummer who is having issues getting what they want out of a kit should be able to describe what they are looking for and have a drum tech figure that out if they cannot. To be fair, there are plenty of drummers who bring that skill set to the table and don't need that help. The fact is (and I say this because I see it ALL the time) there are a lot of drummers who cannot do that. Sometimes the tech has to tell a drummer he is using the wrong kit to achieve what he is really looking for.

- A good drum tech will know all about various drum shell types, bearing edge profiles, drum head selection, tuning techniques, etc. and will be able to help a drummer better define his style. Say what you want but there are a ton of professional drummers (endorsed drummers by the way) out there that just have no idea just like there are keyboard players who only play stock sounds and guitar players that have no idea what kind of power tubes they use in their amp heads.

- A good drum tech can be a fantastic liaison between the drummer the monitor engineer and the FOH engineer. He can also be your ears out front where you can never be. If the two of you have a good rapport and a defined understanding of what you are wanting to accomplish, your tech can help you accomplish that with the FOH engineer including assisting with mic selection and placement. I am not talking about the kid behind the beer soaked console in a bar. These are high dollar professional engineers that care as much about the drum sound as you do.

- If you have developed a good rapport with your drum tech and have a great deal of trust in your relationship as well as mutual respect, a really good drum tech can improve your playing to some degree. Keep in mind a really good drum tech will have worked for a lot of high profile drummers and engineers and will have learned a lot of things along the way that could very well be extremely valuable to you. That is, of course, if you are willing to listen.

Wow. Philosophies.

Good thread. I started this up because after so long of using twin snare stands on my toms, I wanted to consolidate to one and given they are 1965 toms, I was only investigating options.

I've got a drum dial but I only tune to when it sounds right. What's the best resource for tuning methods? (I got SAW down pat.)