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Mystery 40s kit??? Last viewed: 4 hours ago

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So I went and picked up Joe K's kit (actually his father-in-law) discussed a couple weeks ago; actually it was discussed several years ago here as well,; just search on Excelsior.

This is somewhat of a mystery combo, as the two toms are 40s WFL; I found the strange lugs in the 1939 and 1949 catalogues, part P-15. 1939 catalog shows the lugs on tack-bottem 'tunable toms'; in the ensuing years, they must have gone double-headed.

The snare and bass both sport the Excelsior Drums and Accessories New York badge, which is the real mystery. Excelsior Drum Works Philadelphia was sold to Conn ~1919. The snare is wearing Rocket lugs, which were used by Gretsch as well as Rogers Farmingdale NJ. The shells of both drums are similar, looks like 4 ply with two ply rerings (pics). The BDP on these shells is very thin. Were there 'boutique' makers back then??

All original calf heads in good shape, save the reso on the snare. Came with 5 cymbals, all under 12"; one a pre-trans stamp Zildjian, very cool.

Ephemera in the trap case included music magazines mailed to Joseph Biglin NY NY (Joe K's father-in-law) dated April 1951. Full set of uber-thin hardware, some Duplex, W&A, Gretsch. Joe K never ever remembered Biglin playing these drums, so likely they've been sitting in attics and basements in their canvas cases for 60 years.

So who do you think actually made these two Excelsior drums?

John/Levelpebble

Tama Superstar 81 Aqua bop
Rogers Cleveland BDP (x2), Silver bop, Champagne, Black/Gold Duco, WMP, Blue sparkle; Dayton Red Onyx;
Camco Oaklawn 12 14 20 5x14 Tuxedo WMP
LW 59 SC Blue Sparkle, WMP
WFL Gold Sparkle SC, WMP Compacto
Gretsch 49/50 Broadkaster WMP
Fibes Copper Forte
Remo MasterEdge Bop, Gold Crown, Mondo
Slingerland Conway Black Satin
70's MIJ Del Ray, my first and fav ok I'm lying here
Way Too Many Snares, She Says
Posted on 7 years ago
#1
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Glad you could pick this up. Looking forward to seeing it when it's cleaned up

Michael

No Guru - I just love collecting & learning about vintage drums!

Some of my favorites from the kits in the collection
58 WFL New Yorker Blue Sparkle
67 Ludwig Hollywood Red Psychedelic
69 Ludwig Standard Red Ruby Strata
70's Ludwig BOP "Ringo" Kit

A few of my favorite snares
20's Leedy Black Elite
51 Leedy & Ludwig Knob Tension
58 WFL Buddy Rich Classic Blue Sparkle
63 Walberg & Auge Sea Blue Agave Green Pearl
66 Leedy Shelly Manne Blue Agate Pearl
Posted on 7 years ago
#2
Posts: 617 Threads: 7
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I've seen pre war Rogers drums with Gretsch "rocket lugs".

Did Gretsch make these sets, or Rogers, or W+A?

Posted on 7 years ago
#3
Posts: 6170 Threads: 255
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I had a late 40's/early 50's 16x14 floor tom with Gretsch Rocket lugs and Wfl floor tom legs/mounts. It was a W&A drum.

Posted on 7 years ago
#4
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I've seen pre war Rogers drums with Gretsch "rocket lugs". Did Gretsch make these sets, or Rogers, or W+A?

I was going to say W&A, but Mikey beat me to the bell. At the turn of the last century W&A was (originally) a drum hardware outfit and their lugs, stands, mounts etc. ended up on just about every major manufacturers product lines. When W&A started building and selling their own line of drums they used the same Jasper shells that Gretsch used, but they would add their own re-rings (sometimes three rings per drum) and custom (Perfection trade mark,) bearing edges. I'm not at all surprised to see Rocket lugs on WFL drums. Those same parts were being used by everybody. W&A was just about the only game in town for 'generic' drum parts at the time.

John

Too many great drums to list here!

http://www.walbergandauge.com/VintageVenue.htm
Posted on 7 years ago
#5
Posts: 2010 Threads: 19
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Gretsch made drums sold under other brand names early in their history. My GUESS is that that is where the Bass and snare originated (sort of an early "stencil" kit). and the two toms look to be possibly WFL with Zephyr lugs (maybe I can't see them that well).

Drummers weren't quite so brand-centric back then so if a guy with a bass and snare wanted to add on a couple of toms he might well select some from a different maker due to price or availability. As long as they were the same color that seemed to be good enough for a lot of drummers. You see a lot of period photos where there is more than one brand of drum integrated into a set, although usually they will be the same color (almost always either WMP or BDP).

Posted on 7 years ago
#6
Posts: 5295 Threads: 226
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So cool!! Major mojo!!

Cheers

1976 Ludwig Mach 4 Thermogloss 26-18-14-14sn
1978 Ludwig Stainless 22-22-18-16-14-13-12 c/w 6-8-10-12-13-14-15-16-18-20-22-24 concert toms
1975 Sonor Phonic Centennials Metallic Pewter 22-16-13-12-14sn (D506)
1971 Ludwig Classic Bowling Ball OBP 22-16-14-13
1960's Stewart Peacock Pearl 20-16-12-14sn
1980`s Ludwig Coliseum Piano Black 8x14 snare
1973 Rogers Superten 5x14 & 6.5x14 COS snares
1970`s John Grey Capri Aquamarine Sparkle 5x14 snare
1941 Ludwig & Ludwig Super 8x14 snare
Posted on 7 years ago
#7
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That close up of the BMP finish in pic 2 is nuts. What a cool pattern.

Posted on 7 years ago
#8
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