ludwig71!

WELCOME to the VDF!, and ... I converted the URL/link of your drums to an attachment. Please use attachments for your pics in the future! ENJOY your stay! :)

Tommyp

Maybe you should try finding a 6 ply bowling ball kick,they were offered thru the 1979 catalogue,I have owned both 3 ply and 6 ply Luddy BD's and the 6 ply is def a different animal,and it sounds like it might deliver more what you are looking for.

I had a 3 ply with granitone interiors 15 years ago and sold it like a dumb455..

However, it financed the best Euro trip to Greece i've ever had in my life, touring across the Greek Isles with my band,(my guitar player and bass player are both brothers and Greek !) meeting people from all around the world, and playing volleyball with some lovely topless Mediterranean girls on an almost daily basis ;)..

Now onto the subject at hand.. A 6 ply shell will definitely give you more power, but i'm not sure if it will make it "louder" then a 3 ply shell.. What i think makes it louder is the head selection and tuning. I keep my kick drum wide open, no porthole, no muffling other than the inner muffle ring of a single ply P3 head (on both sides, clear on batter and reso side being smooth white or ebony P3).. Tuning the bass drum up to medium tension with reso head being tighter, and batter being lower, but still 2 full turns above wrinkles.

With lower tuning, the more thump and "deadened" tone and sound you'll get of course.

My 22x14 easily sounded like a 24x14, and i had several soundmen wondering what the size of my kick was.. Tuning is a subjective thing, but when it comes to achieving a certain powerful sound, tuning up is the way to go. Don't worry about your kick or kit sounding too vintage.. No such thing with those Ludwigs.. You'd be surprised how many "modern" recordings have vintage drums behind them.. Metallica's "Black Album" from 1991 had a 70's Gretsch behind it, and Foo Fighters had both vintage Gretsch and Ludwig behind several of their recordings as well..

Steve Jordan has been known to use vintage Ludwig in studio, (probably on the engineer's request) but don't let the folks at Yamaha know that ;) Good luck with your tuning endeavor and Welcome to the forum !

eamesuser: thanks for that info about the late 70's 6 ply option, I never even considered that, just assuming the finish would be off. But I will definitely research.

Human71: Topless beach volleyball, in Greece? Umm, where can i sign up for that?

You're correct 100% about the tuning, — this is exactly how I tune them. Looser batter side, just above wrinkly, a hair of rebound, but mostly dead feeling, and higher pitched on the reso. But maybe my head selection is wrong.

BATTER HEAD: Remo Powersonic, with one of the dampening rings peeled off, no pad.

RESO HEAD: Aquarian Regulator, with hole, and foam ring around center of inside head.

I find this setup gives me a beefy, focused, almost gated BOOF. But the feel isn't quite right, I really have to work and wallop the pedal to get the feel right, feels best when the beater is buried into the head, but playing off the head with rebound is almost nil.

I think I'll try a P3 clear on the batter, and a coated P3 on the reso. I have tried both heads on, no hole, but found there was too much boing, and I didn't like the feel of the beater coming off the head.

I wish Remo or someone would make a batter, basically like a diplomat coated, with a dampening ring, slightly more than the P3. And something similar for the reso head, but with a very thin dampening ring in the center of the head, like the aquarian regulator, only thinner and coated.

Yet, on the newer drums, kicks that are 18X22, with 2 heads, no hole, the feel is always more beefy, good rebound, lots of focus and beef, even though it's wide open, that extra air in the drum makes the feel seem more FULL?

I've been debating taking my bass drum to a drum builder in my area, and asking him to re-cut the bass drum's bearing edges again, to try and mimic as close as possible, something like Yamaha's bearing edges on the club custom.

TAKEN FROM: http://www.drumforum.org/index.php?/topic/105288-yamaha-club-custom-impressions/

SEE PIC ATTACHED:

Simply amazing drums, almost like mahogany, but made of Kapur. Their 20 inch kick had such a low focused beef, it was steller. I should probably just buy those drums if I can find some.

Toms, were 10, 12, 14 floor. And after I tuned them in the store, even with the stock heads, they were so fat and warm, with mid tension. AWESOME drums.

I like the batter looser than the reso too. But I tend to tune higer. I love the pop it gives. Great looking drums!

-Doug

You can also try the new Remo Powerstroke felt Fiberskyn heads that came out at this year's NAMM.. They'll give you a more focused sound, with just enough resonance and warmth, but because of the coated nature of the head, it can also give you that "wallup" you're looking for.

I think a clear P3 on the batter and that new Remo head might be a winner.. The idea of having the bearing edges recut on your kit sounds good, but it may not have the same results like the CLub Custom..The shells on the CC's are thinner. I have a vintage early 80's Yamaha Tour (8000) series kit that has the exact sound you want..LoLoLoLo.. It has all the characteristics of the club custom, but with a more focused , modern sound. The mahogany/birch shells make it the perfect shell for an all around, versatile set of drums that can do it all..I currently have it up for sale on my local classifieds, but I may just take down the ad and keep the drums.. I just put fresh coated Emps on the toms and have an Evans EQ4 reso and P3 clear on the kick..

They sound almost identical to the new Recording Customs, only slightly warmer because of the mahogany. I even heard some drummers preferred these drums in studio over the older RC's, but that just may be speculation..If i were you, i'd wait for more forum members to chime in regarding the recutting of the bearing edges to see if it's still a good idea..Whatever the case, good luck with whatever you decide, and let us know how it it turns out..

Thanks for the info Human. I do have a new P3 that's still brand new in the box. I've been waiting for my batter to become dead enough to just change it out.

I also bought a Powerstroke 4 at the same time I bought the P3, both are new, and I'm wondering if I should just exchange the P4 for that Powerstroke felt Fiberskyn.

It's expensive to just "try" out heads. I even have an emperor coated I got on sale, and put it on the batter side of the bass drum, and couldn't for the life of me figure out how to get it to sound/feel right. But, I do have some heavy felt strips leftover.

Yeap, those Yamaha CC's were amazing. It was so odd to me to be able to tune a 10X7, 12X8 toms mid/lower tuning, with stock clear heads mind you, and get all this tremendous WHOOOM, without any weird overtones, or high end "wheeerm" sounds. They were so fat and focused, yet warm, good stick definition, and their dynamic buildup - quiet to loud volume build up with a stick simply blew my mind.

Stellar drumset.

Experimenting with BD heads can get pricey for sure.

Couple of thoughts on Bowling ball finish.

There is a section in Rob Cook's Ludwig book on the BB finish.

#1 he said there is a lot of variation in that finish.

#2 showed examples of factory matched kits where there had variations from drum to drum.

#3 showed a pic of a BB floor tom that didn't even match itself for goodness sake.

On a 14 x 22 BD you would be able to see variation from the players/driver seat perspective pretty easily,but from out front with the toms and hardware that would be a bit less obvious IMO.