Well recently we had Jaguar bought out by the Indian TATA company. They did it the right way though. They kept Jaguar here in Britain, kept the workforce, and the design team (Ian Callum). They Pumped 100's and 100's of millions in to the business and stayed back and let the company get on and do what it does best. Now Jag is back and producing world class BRITISH cars.

I guess the difference is that the company infrastructure had long gone with Rogers and Camco so there was nothing more than a Trade Mark to invest in.

Actually here's a question does Yamaha still own the Rogers TM? If not where is it? And what would it be worth to buy? Jeeez that could be the ultimate Rogers collectors wet dream!!!!

Actually Brook Mays almost succeeded in bringing Rogers back. What Brook Mays had available under the Rogers brand at the end of its ownership was respectable midrange, well priced, maple shell drums. Beavertail Lugs. Modern Mounts. PLANS FOR EXPANSION.

Tooling and contracts for parts were already in place. Plans for the next step were already in place.

What showed up at NAMM as Rogers under Yamahas leadership wasn't anything remotely resembling what they acquired. Yamaha never produced a Rogers drum equal to Brook Mays.

To say something was malicious or intentional would be to ascribe actions that cannot be proven. However the gift of hindsight makes things appear much more clearly. To examine what was marketed is really all we have to look at. And what was chosen to be sold was less than what was acquired. Designs moved backwards. And the whole thing was quietly allowed to die without comment.

In my opinion, to call that incompetence, and to not see it as an intention, would be like pretending the "bridge is out" sign really means to speed up and go ahead.

I was using Yamaha top line cymbal stands back then.

I had almost purchased a Maple Custom Absolute set new.

Yamaha builds excellent quality drums and hardware across the whole spectrum it offers. I think it is really important to say that. They make very good percussion gear. Top quality at every price point level. Not much evidence of incompetence there.

I sold every piece of Yamaha gear I owned. What did not sell quickly, I gave away to kids who needed something better than they had. I do not own or use any equipment branded Yamaha. Any equipment means exactly that. NOTHING under my hands will ever wear that brand. That has nothing to do with quality or performance. They make excellent products. In some things, probably the best in the industry when compared with any and all other makers.

I want to see one of those TrueSonic DW snare drums.

I think the name is owned by Dixon now. They have been making a move into the higher end. Here's hoping they at least attach a high quality drum to the name.

Intentional I say. I mean the quality of Rogers drums made under Yamahas direction were simply awful. Worse than Jamm or Percussion Plus. Proof positive.

I too think it was deliberate,and it wouldn't be the first time that one campany ,bought another just to kill it.Yamaha has been making world class drums for a while,so they knew the formula for sucess,but why be another source of competition,when doing nothing and letting the brand die,was so much easier.

They probabley got the intellectual rights and patents for a song,so there was only a small investment made there.

Didn't Slingerland, do kind of the same thing with Leedy brand?For relativly little money,Slingerland cut the competition down by yet another drum company.I'm sure Bud was thinking after the failure of knob tension drums,that the Ludwig name,from Leedy & Ludwig,was trashed.In my opinion,that's why he agreed to buy the Leedy half of house,from Conn,and WFL(Bill Ludwig)the Ludwig half.

Just spit ballin'

Steve B

Almost true. Yes, the great majority of 60s MIJ lauan is clearly inferior, but the best 60s MIJ (Pearl phenolic in '66, Yamaha birch in '67) was not inferior by any means. They lagged behind in hardware and metal snares, but the flagship drums did not. A long-accepted untruth. Add the word "most" and you're in business.

Having recently read The Slingerland Book, supposedly what that transaction was about was Bill Jr. wanting the family name back.

Conn wanted rid of the drum business, and Ludwig seized the opportunity.

He pitched the idea of buying the Leedy name to Bud Slingerland, who liked the idea of having a second brand.

In those days, it was more common for a MI manufacturer to grant each dealer exclusive rights to carry the brand in a given geographical area. Having a second brand was a way to get around this and have multiple dealers in one area.

Gibson famously did this by purchasing the Epiphone brand. Same quality instrument with a different logo and headstock. Gibson could offer top quality instruments at twice as many dealers as before. Later Gibson switched over to using the Epi name for import copies of their own products.

Anyway, Slingerland did the same thing with the Leedy brand. Everything the same but the lugs. They weren't trying to kill the brand; they had full page ads in Downbeat with Shelly Manne and his Leedys. They just wanted to sell more drums whatever the name on the badge..

Times were way different in regard to consumer savvy. Today, with the www, we can find out which Chinese factory an OEM $50 condenser mic comes from. Back then, how would the average musician even learn that Slingerland and Leedy were the same company? Maybe by checking the address on the Downbeat ad? A knowledgeable salesperson might use it as part of their pitch....

Well, you know more about Rogers drums that I ever will, but I have to wonder then what you make of Gibson's similar nuking of the Slingerland brand.

They reportedly (I've never seen them) built some top-quality product, then dropped that, later slapped the name on cheapo Asian-made snares, then completely let it fade out.

Do you think that their intention was to kill the brand, or does that depend on the company doing the acquiring and killing being one that also already makes drums?

Based on what I've seen while working for (and, currently, owning) companies that make music gear, one possible scenario is that when Brook Mays went bankrupt owing Yamaha $16,000,000, some employee(s) at Yamaha US noticed that they could acquire the brand name, got all excited, issued some press releases, then failed to sell their great idea to the bosses back in Japan.

Some other employee(s) back at the home office picked up part of the idea, and the next time he ran into the guy who kept pestering him about making cheap OEM drums for Yamaha, he figured out a way to get the guy off his back and maybe make a buck or two from the old brand.

We have no way of knowing for sure [i]what[/] happened. I'm just tossing up an alternative theory. Maybe Oswald acted alone, maybe he was a patsy.

But if Yamaha wanted to make sure that Rogers was good and dead, going to the length of deliberately marketing crappy drums under that name just to sully it, why have they now sold the brand to Reliance International? Reliance makes some really good stuff (supposedly all the hardware for Gretsch).

Well however we look at it, Rogers is just a name now of an American Drum company that was sadly allowed to die because it couldn't sell enough product when it needed too. The same almost happened to the entire U.S. Drum Business. You guy's in the U.S. have a Drum Industry back, some names old and some new. Gretsch have found their mojo, Ludwig have bounced back and John Good (possibly the catalyst to all this) beat the Japanese companies at their own marketing game. Celebrate it, support it, use it or you will again lose it.