What this really comes down to is the term "vintage" Doesn't necessarily equate to "original" or "untouched". It doesn't really have anything to do with condition of said object. Modified or not, it's still a vintage kit. However, "collectable", "minty", or "original" are definitely words I feel get tossed around without regard to meaning.

But ,someday when you want to sell that kit,don't be shocked when a guy who is a collector/player tells you ,"to bad you altered that kit,I can only give you 30-35 % less than collector value now.Altering a vintage kit,is losing money.

But having said that,they're your drums,and you can do whatever you want with them.Just understand both sides of the issue.I'd just buy a new or used modern drum kit,where the "upgrades",are already in place.Sorted...yes ....cheers

Steve B

The truth is that those bass drums etc. were correctly upgraded back in the day as some of the mounting hardware was crap...so the sellers are telling the truth but one can always be more specific and state something like: "original bass drum tom mount was swapped out many years ago..." or something like that. A lot of players will welcome the "improved" hardware as it will stand up more to modern day gigging much better than the crap that some of those companies used to make. As far as "shutting down the auctions..." I think that is no one's business, if you don't like the product then simply move on and look for the item that suits your needs. I personally shy away from vintage snare drums that have been altered as I like original equipment for authenticity but sometimes the snare drum is so rare that I'll make an exception and hope that my welder/machinist and platers can save the day.

Mike Curotto

Here are my rants of the day:

Camco snare from ebay - Cracks in wrap not disclosed and strange crack in the paint all the way around on the inside not disclosed. I returned the drum

Jazz Festival - Ebay BIN of $399 for a pre serial champagne sparkle drum with COB hoops! Yes please. I ask buyer - Any isues or mods? Buyer says no. Pictures look really clean. Drum shows up yesterday and there is a hole through the shell under the snare strainer. All factory parts so the extra hole really puzzles me. Anyway no way that drum is worth the $400 and change to ship it my way. So I returned that one also.

Bottom line if the sellers are honest with buyers I think everyone is happy. Had either drum been priced accordingly with its true condition then I might consider keeping them. Small hole in a Jazz fest no longer made...patch it right up and nice players drum. However not at the prices some sellers are demanding.

Manny

I think the point here is "misrepresentation" and where the line is crossed language wise.

Exactly. People who don't know better usually are not asking top dollar. The sharks are the ones who hide the issues, demand top dollar and then get upset when you call them out.

ONE time I had a drum slip past me that I sold to a forum member. When I saw the issue I happily made a deal that was fair for what it was.

Manny

I wonder if the number of vintage drums ruined by Pearl style two hole pipe mounts is directly relative to the number of players who owned a Forum or Export as their first set.

I think the real crime on ebay is the sellers who tear apart vintage drums and sell them piece by piece. I wish these butchers could be blacklisted from ebay.

I know I have to wonder when I buy a part on ebay to complete a vintage drum, someone removed it from it's original for some reason or another. But some sellers are so blatantly obvious about it. I look through all their items for sale, and see the whole complete drum. I will never buy from them.

I think there may have been a topic on those sellers on here before?