There is alot of general information on these and very little specific information. For example, Rob Cook had only like 2 pages on these in his Rogers book. I traded some emails with him and he stated that he will be updating and adding more info in the near future (subsequent editions?).

Yamaha made the first generation, that started in like 1967 and went through 197? The next generation of these came in 1980, which were made in Taiwan and have different style lugs - quite modern Pearl-like. A footnote is that this year (about 1967) is when Yamaha first started making drums.

One example of a lack of specific info comes in the area of who (where) made the hardware (lugs for example). Did Yamaha also make the lugs or were they all made in the USA? I have read that these lugs were supposed to be the next generation of Rogers lugs on all Rogers models. The steel shell snares were made in Japan (they feature a little 'made in japan' sticker on them) though these shells look identical to other Rogers steel shelled snare shells by the sea shore (10x's let's hear it!)

The concensus is that the shells (sometimes featuring the gray painted interiors) were made of Birch and Luan. It is also agreed by most that these drums (first generation) were a higher quality in most every aspect to the MIJ of that time made by others (Pearl, Star, Hoshino).

No matter how much these get discussed (here and on other forums like DFO) we can not seem to rid ourselves of some ignorance as far as these two generations are concerned. Some are quick to dismiss all these believing that all of them were cheaply made in Taiwan, as those may be the only ones that the commentator is aware of. Among the several ways to tell the difference between the two different generations is the badge.

Oval badge = Yamaha made, first generation, birch/luan, great drums.

Rectangle badge = made in Taiwan, second generation, (wood?), not so good.

These are quite historical as some consider these to be the first case that an American drum company outsourced their drums to the Japanese for the very well established reputationed American drum company badge. Therefore, some consider this the point in history where American drum executives bit the fruit and the rest is a history of the downfall of the American drum companies, at the hands of the Asians scooping up the American dollar and market share. So, these R-360s and R-380s are considered by some to be 'not real Rogers'. Others recognize that these were designed (and some, myself included, suspect partially manufactured by) by now legendary Rogers engineers (the name Joe Thompson comes to mind?) and therefore consider them just as real Rogers as any other model. Does the engineering alone constitute "Real Rogers"?

When I am asked if I am an MSU or UofM fan, I answer "Yes!" In much the same manner - personally, I really don't care if they are 'genuine Rogers' or not. If they are not, they are Yamahas, which are darn good drums anyway. I see these as historic more than anything else, and it is a bonus that they are also quality drums. Now, I speak of the oval badged Yammy built ones, of which I happen to own one of these kits....with split wrap waiting to be restored.

I am SO sorry if I am preaching to the choir here. As far as your specific question goes, it may just come down to options (wrap color, sizes, etc.) and certainly numbers of lugs. The difference between the 380s and 360s are, in my opinion, one of the areas / details that needs to be flushed out. Some state their understanding of the difference, then when you go looking for evidence of that, you see conflicting evidence....and so the mystery continues.

I love this topic, as if it doesn't show! I just wish that some of this knowledge would get flushed out.

John

I REALLY appreciate you elaborating on this for me on account of that Ive seen SO many different variations of said synopsis.

My conclusion based off what you summed up is that the orig 60s/70s r360/80 is that they were indeed quality drums and as you said whether or not theyre regarded as genuine Rogers or Yamaha theyre quality drums either way.

Not too long ago I had acquired an 80s Rogers r360 snare and it appeared to be the cheaply made genetic drum. So I returned it and now after many years of collecting kits I stick with my 1967-69 Rogers holidays and powertone dayton snare. Cream of the crop. I'll never see the need to get another kit, unless I come across a great deal that is.

D' Drummer

Here are two perfect examples of what John is talking about...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-60s-Rogers-R360-Twister-DrumSet-Snare-5X14-Blue-Ripple-5-Ply-100-Birch-/171060149969?pt=Vintgae_Drums_Percussion&hash=item27d3fabed1

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rogers-18-12-14-Red-Ripple-R-360-Drum-Set-Bop-Bass-Tom-Floor-5ply-Birch-70s-/171063142697?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27d4286929

These are well-made drums and very deserving of the "Rogers" name. It is my understanding that Joe Thompson did design the lugs for these drums. I did read this somewhere and will post it when/if I find it.

You can clearly see the use of the Rogers strainer on the snare drum. Note, too, the quality of the shells on both the snare drum and the other kit.

The second series of R360/R380 saw the typical MIT changes and, IMHO, not really worth my time or money to acquire... although I do have an R380 parallel action snare drum that I got for cheap! If anything, these are a reminder of the downfall of an American legend!

Mark

I am restoring a Yamaha made 380 right now that I picked up cheap and can tell that it is of much higher quality then any stencil kit from that time.

For you folks who know a bit more about these drums what years did they paint the interior of the Yamaha made drums and when did they go to clear interiors?

Mine are sort of a green/grey color but I noticed but of the sets on ebay posted by Idrum4fun have clear interiors. Is one older and one news within that late 60's to 70's range?

The best way to identify drums is to gain hands on experience, then the differences in quality, materials and design from one to the next becomes more obvious. Say you restore an R360 kit and "know" it inside and out, you'll definitely know what one ISN'T when you see it in most cases.

I've owned (picked up cheap and flipped) two R-380's and one R-360. The build quality was much higher on the 360. However, the R-380 was NOT a crap Taiwanese kit at all. It was much better than the entry level kits I remember seeing in the early eighties.

John (Drummerjohn333) is right, there isn't gobs of information about either of these. It was a couple years ago that I had the last R-380. Information wasn't all that easy to dig out.

Here's a picture of the last R-380 kit I had:

And while we're on the subject of pictures, here's some pix of the R-360 drum mentioned previously.

From the eBay auction:

Here's some more pix of another R-360 drum mentioned previously.

From the eBay auction:

To the best of my knowledge, here is what the differences are: the original R360 drums were available from the late 60's til 1971 or so. They were available with an 18" bass or a 20" bass, depending on the layout. Some pretty nice finishes too, ripples etc. Decent drums, wearing lugs designed by Joe Thompson. These lugs also found their way onto the Duplex drums sold by Grossman Music after they sold Rogers to CBS. Not sure where the R360 lugs were made, but I always assumed it was Japan since it would have raised costs to ship parts back and forth - and low cost was the whole point.

The drums were indeed made by Yamaha, and the quality was pretty good, far above any of the cheap kits from Sears or Montgomery Ward etc. At the time, anything that said 'made in Japan' was considered to be junk (and it usually was, since Japan's industrial capacity was still way below par - 1966 was only 20 years after the war, their economy was only beginning to gain strength and they still suffered shortages in raw materials like steel.) The R360 drums suffered that MIJ stigma and they did not sell well. Also, a lot of young folks had parents who had lived thru WWII and it's human and material costs and these adults were loathe to buy anything Japanese - the poor quality made it unacceptable in practical terms as well as emotional.

The R360/380 drums from the early 80's were very different. Made in Taiwan, they were very similar to a lot of the entry-level generic stuff found in music stores; the quality was below par and they had no real identity beyond the Rogers stickers.

The R360 had a 22" bass with only 8 lugs, and the stands etc were lighter. The only colors were black and white. The R380 had a 10-lug bass and a 10-lug snare, and much heavier stands. Along with black or white, a woodgrain finish was also available on these.

I think the 60's stuff has some collector appeal (I would like a little 18" bass kit myself), and the 80's goods have virtually none.

All imho, of course....