Thanks for the tips!

Rob Cook buys his hoops & hides from Stern but he doesn't normally sell the unfinished wood hoops. However, when I emailed him and ordered some calf hides he made an exception for whatever reason - helpful.

I got the hoops and hides for about $350cdn.

It broke down like this:

Unfinished (un-glued) wood flesh-hoops:

2 12" wood hoops $8 each ($16)

3 14" wood hoops $8 each ($24)

I got three because I went with a plastic head (plastice head - that sounds so 'industrial') on the snare reso side.

Calf hides:

2 16" (for the 12" drum) $47 each ($94)

3 18" (14 FT & batter side 14 snare) $61 each ($183)

+ $10 shipping/handling to Canada YES only $10! This stuff is really light and Rob Rolled it up in a box. It felt like nothing was in it when it arrived - haha.

It was close to $350 Canadian total for the 5 sticks & 5 calf hides to get it to my door.

At Rebeats - Rob's website, he has a cool little booklet that explains how to tuck a head. There is a DVD with the book with two tucking jobs to view - well worth the $10 - and again - only $10 - for the book & DVD - not bad and well worth it. The booklet also has the history of the calfhide drum head business in the USA and addresses & contact information for suppliers world-wide.

Oh -yes - that tip mentioned earlier in this Thead about the glue in the hide and not to soak it too long is a good one. Make sure the water is tepid (not cold - tepid water is not hot, it is not warm, it is slightly less than warm, but not cold - easy right?). AND do not over-soak. Snare and tom hides maybe 12-15 minutes soak-time at the most.

Good luck.

Yes, I soaked my in a sink in water that was just sorta warm - you could even say it was tepid!

What I did was keep checking it and the moment it was supple enough to put on the hoop I pulled it out of the water. It was probably less than 10 minutes.

I found that the easiest head to do was the bottom slunk on my snare 'cause it was thin, and the floor toms were thicker so it was a little harder to get the folds out. But you do see heads with some folds on the hoop so I don't think it's a biggie.

Another question if I may: is it a good idea to wax the bearing edges before mounting a wet head? I know people have been mounting wet calf heads for ages without problems, but I get a cold shiver down my spine when I think of putting a soaking head on my 50+ year-old drums. Maybe I'm just a worry-wart, but still.

If wax is advisable, which wax is best?

Thanks again for all the advice!

I felt a little weird about that too, but when it came time to mount it the head wasn't dripping and the amount of moisture that ended up in contact with the bearing edge was much less than I'd anticipated. The head had already started to dry by that point. After I'd done a few I kinda shrugged and accepted it as a non-issue.

I didn't use any wax.

To me, part of the thing of calf heads is that you have massively more head-to-bearing edge contact and because they are very much the same material (leather and wood as opposed to plastic and wood) they become "one". That's another reason I don't like metal hoops - they won't become one because wood and metal are two different animals. People will say "ya, but the rims are metal". Ya they are, but the wood flesh hoops are wrapped in the head and go right against the bearing edges so I think it's more correct to use wood.

Weren't wood hoops used, by a landslide, more than metal in the past?

I think they were judging by the ones sold on eBay - I see way more wood than metal. 20:1 ? There's got to be a reason. The only thing I can think that metal would be better for would be a touring drummer who wanted to keep an extra snare batter in his trap case that wouldn't warp, because wood hooped calf heads will warp something wicked if not stored properly.

Also, the super wide wood flesh hoops look better on vintage drums compared to the thin metal ones, that's just my preference.

This is my first experience with wood flesh-hoops and calfhide heads. It's been good so far.

The bearing edges on my 58 drums were not the best. Ray Ayotte very carefully redid them and did a fantastic job. And they were not the easiest edges to work with.

After he did the edges I put a small amount of Tung Oil all around the edges on all the drums. It looked really nice because it soaked into the wood and really brought out that nice contrasting colour of the Maple&Sweetgum wood. The Tung Oil does provide a little water resistance. I had not worries when I placed my newly tucked slightly damp wood-hooped calf head on the drum and fitted the counterhoop to allow a nice little crown to shape while it was drying.

I think putting wax on the bearing edge is a good idea. In fact when Gretsch is wet-sanding the new finish on their shells they put wax on the edges to keep any water out while sanding. You can see this on Youtube here:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxNy-vF0rG8[/ame]

Again - this was my first gluing of the flesh-hoops and tucking of the calf hide to the hoops adventure. I did ask lots of questions and......so far..... so good!

Another note: when I glued my flesh hoops the best glue I could find was Titebond II. Titebond III is even better but the extra cost is not really needed.

I would have preferred to use Titebond Hide Glue but when I tried that and waited 'til the next day the whole thing came unglued (and so did I!) when it got wet from the head.

You could probably use something like Elmer's glue but Titebond is a much more professional quality product than Elmer's which is more suited for school craft projects.

This Elmers ProBond worked fine for me:

[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Elmers-Interior-12-Ounce-Container-P9702/dp/B0000DD49J[/ame]

The thing you want to remember is you only have to put a small dab where needed and it works great if everything is clamped down properly for the glue to set.

Rob Cook, in his DVD, mentiones you don't need a lot of glue - carpenter's wood glue sticks fine and besides, you might want to take the hoop apart sometime.

I had to take one hoop apart, remove the calf hide, clean the dried glue off and redo it......experience you know:

I had just watched the DVD a few days before so I wasn't freaked out at all when I had to take the head apart. I just muttered some choice words #*@! and got on with it. I had made a little error regarding the diameter and it was really easy to fix. I had the head taken apart re-tucked and put back on the drum to dry within an hour and there was absolutely no harm to the hoop or hide.

just bought a 14" batter head for my 14x8 modern gretsch full range maple. Totally changed the sound of the drum. very warm and incredible. cant recommend highly enough. Jeff seems very knowledgable and kind. The fact is that these heads are expensive and more finicky. They just require more work than plastic. BUT they last forever if cared for. SO are they really more expensive. Yes up front but in the long term ????????????????? who knows.

I have been using Stern heads for years. I use them on my jazz kit as well as my classical snare. You can hear clips of those at my you tube channel. www.youtube.com/jasonfurmandrummer I hope that helps.