fatlace - Thanks for sharing yours! Would it be possible for you to post a clear close-up of the P338 strainer lever? I’m hoping to track the possible changes to these strainers. Most seem to have a “Patent Pending” type of stamp on them, but my later model Pioneer (1932) has a “Patent Applied For” type stamp.
I’m using contemporary snare wires on my Pioneer model too.
Cool1
fatlace - Thank you for adding the P338 strainer photo! The interesting thing about my “Patent Applied For” version of the P338 is that; earlier snares than my 1932 Pioneer had “Patent Pending”, and the procedure for getting a patent is first you “apply” and after that the patent becomes “pending”, and then you receive the actual patent later on. Maybe Conn was re-applying for a P338 patent so they’d have their name on it.
:)
Here's a drum I found on Craigslist last week. I cleaned it up, and now it's nice and shiny. Sounds beautiful too! I don't know what year it is though. It's a 6.5x14 with 8 lugs.
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v319/mc8track/IMG_4889.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v319/mc8track/IMG_4886.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v319/mc8track/IMG_4914Large.jpg[/IMG]
Thanks for bring it over. OMG It is Beautiful!Cool1Bowing this drum just knocked me out!! also from where the ludwig logo is engraved right by the p-338 this is an early 1920's model.
night mission - Thank you for posting here! I agree with vintagemore2000! Damn that is a beautiful example of what I refer to in a post on this thread as, a “Style 3” “All Metal Separate Tension” model, catalogue matched for 1923, 24 and 25. Keep in mind it appears to have the 2 piece double bead shell and single flanged hoops too. Thanks for the close-up of the strainer lever too!
Cool1
OK, here's my drums – a 14x4" Dance model drum and a 15x4" Concert dance model. The dance model drum seems to be earlier and has the ludwig logo next to the throw whereas the 15" drum has the ludwig logo one panel over – the vent hole is on the opposite side. The centre bead seems to be much fatter on the 14x4" drum.
OK, here's my drums – a 14x4" Dance model drum and a 15x4" Concert dance model. The dance model drum seems to be earlier and has the ludwig logo next to the throw whereas the 15" drum has the ludwig logo one panel over – the vent hole is on the opposite side. The centre bead seems to be much fatter on the 14x4" drum.
WOW!! really sweet. will you do us a favor a large part of dating them is by the logo and throw off. please take a pic of the p-338 strainer and the panel of the logo placement.
supraphonic - Thanks for getting in on this. Those are nice examples! vintagemore2000 is right, we need more photos and you should be able to evaluate the info at the top of this thread and determine what year your drums are a “Catalogue Match” for. Please try to “Catalogue Match” your drums.
I can see the logo on the 15 is in the panel to the left of the strainer panel and the 14 has the vent hole in that panel so without a photo I would guess the logo is in the strainer panel just up to the left of the throw-off.
How many lugs it has, and hoop (flange or not) design is important for dating these drums too. Your hoops are flanged I see.
Congratulations on being the first 15 to weigh in here! You know we all would love to see more photos!
Clapping Happy2
OK, a little about the logos as depicted for the “Catalogue Matches”. The logo was depicted in the 1926 catalogue as being moved from next to the strainer to the panel to the left of the strainer panel on what Ludwig started to call the Ornamental models only. The catalogue shows what appears to be a black Deluxe model with the new logo placement (I mentioned this in my break down in the first post on this thread.). What this means in this study is that technically, “Catalogue Matches” for the plain All Metal Separate Tension (AMST) models would still have the logo in the strainer panel as depicted in those catalogues (we all have seen AMSTs with the new logo placement and P338 strainers so when exactly did they make that production change? That’s what we’re trying to track.).
Understanding that we have examples of the standard AMST model that have the logo moved over to that left panel is precisely why, for this study, we should strive to “Catalogue Match” exactly as was depicted, because if we can’t find any examples (or very few) of a certain years's depicted model exactly, that would help us see the changes that Ludwig made in comparison and we might be able to narrow our dating beyond what the catalogue years provide. We all understand that there are these true Ludwig production variations and these variations have created some “murky waters” when it comes to a very specific dating of these drums.
So the main thrust of this study is to try and prove the catalogues were correct and exact as we can. There for we should be able to better define what is really out there. This is going to seem like “nit picking”, but there is a method to the madness.
Let’s try to prove what the catalogues depict EXISTED. Then if we can’t find any examples of what is in a catalogue then we should have a better idea of when and what Ludwig actually produced by those examples that exist but don’t fit the catalogue depictions.
Thanks to you all!
Will try get some more pics. As far as I can narrow it down – the 14x4" drum has 8 lugs and logo to left of throw in the same panel which would make it 1923-25?
As you can see from the pic the top of the snare tension adjuster has been replaced – if anyone has one let me know... (in the picture the bottom claws are non original)
The 15x4" has ten lugs so could be anywhere from 1924-27.
