...because I was focusing on the tones of the toms and such. Snares have a tendency to mask that a bit. I wanted as true of a tone as possible.

Earthtone goat skins totally suck - goat sounds wrong on drumset (tubby), they are mounted on metal hoops that sound bad and can't be re-tucked, they don't sell slunks so what are you going to do - use a "thin" one like they suggested for the bottom (tried that and it sounded horrible), or use a plastic snare bottom (tried that and it sounded horrible), and finally (if that weren't enough) I don't think anyone at the company has ever used their products - they buy them from Brazil, they are a middleman who's main thing is banjo's.

When I phoned Earthtone is was evident that no one there had ever been in the same room or even within a mile of someone using one of their heads on a drum.

I bought used calf heads on eBay and re-tucked them, and also I bought some wood "flesh hoops" from Jeff Stern (a very helpful guy!)and mounted heads from eBay on them.

The heads came from Columbia Products International. I picture they are a cover for cocaine shipments and every week they have piles and piles of drumheads they used to ship the blow that they need to get rid of. That's why they sell them on their site in minimum order of 50 heads! ("What are we going to do with all these heads, sniff, sniff?")

But the pair I got from them off of eBay for about $30 were great, and add the wood hoops from Jeff and they are still way cheaper than plastic.

Also: I've bought pre-tucked calf heads and I don't think it's anywhere as good as tucking the head yourself. When you do that you can choose how tight the head will be at rest which is determined by too many variables for someone to do miles away. And when you mount the wet head on a drum and let it conform and the collar is formed by that particular drum... that's light years different than buying one already done.

Tucking it yourself and letting it conform to the actual drum is the way to do it - like a custom suit. It makes a marriage between the head and the shell you can get no other way - way more head contact.

Another note: the flesh hoop needs to be (ultimately) be sized to the actual drum shell and rim being used.

Don't expect an off the shelf tucked calf head to work with all rims and shells - it won't.

The one I bought off of eBay last week didn't fit a Ludwig snare. It fit the shell but wouldn't fit in the rim - many flesh hoops are dramatically bigger than metal ones. So I had to soak the head, remove the hoop and sand it to fit with a belt sander, then re tuck it, which it needed anyways. But in the end I got a nice slunk 14" (and extra 14" flesh hoop) for $20.

You, sir, are a rare breed of person who has those skills. I admire you because I know how nice it must be to get the most out of a nice set of calfskins. I am waaaaay too lazy to acquire the skill to do it. But all the really old school guys used to do that all the time! They didn't have a choice!

Thanks!

It's not hard to tuck calf heads, it worked the first time for me with no problems.

OK. It's been ... a while. I FINALLY got the calf skin heads in. No joke. I literally just got them back. For those that have been away on vacation for the past month or three, here's the skinny...

I wanted to put calf skin heads on my kit along with some goat skin heads and a variety of mylar. I wanted to mix and match so that we (drummers) could have something on the web to reference on the subject.

The calf skin heads arrived too small. The flesh hoops didn't fit the drums. The goat skin heads were out of stock and unavailable for several months. GREAT!!!

I still don't have the goat skins, but the calf skins just arrived today.

Guess what?....

THEY FIT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Unbelievable. I purchased this kit December 30 2008. I've wanted calf on it from the very first day. I spent time restoring it. I researched and ordered the heads. They didn't fit. Returned same. Waited. Planted a garden. Had a kid. Raised same. He's now serving in the military and my replacement heads finally arrived...and they fit.

I am weeping.

Good for you!

Here's some pics of my set last night:

[IMG]http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp231/kaaawa2000/REBOP1.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp231/kaaawa2000/REBOP2.jpg[/IMG]

I call the set "ReBop", because Bop was a revolution against swing's four on the floor bass drum, and with this set it's all about four on the floor, so the set is a revolution against bop, or ReBop.

It's a '76 or so Slinger 26" kick (with huge lambswool beater), Leedy? small Chinese tom, '64 Supra, and the floor toms are a converted early '60's Ludwig 15" marching snare and a 16" '69 Ludwig. There's a light in the kick and a scene of Diamond Head copied from a painting my Grandfather did in the 50's. All the heads are calf except the kick front which is a plastic Ludwig tymp head and the snare batter which is an Earthtone which I'm not too fond of - I'll replace that with calf soon, and the kick front eventually, but it will require redoing the logo.

The cymbals are 14" hihats, 17 1/2" medium and 16" sizzle all 50's Isty K's, and a 8" AZ splash and a 22" 70's AZCO "S" swish w/rivets which is a factory second and a cracked AZ 14" hihat cymbal I use for a fast crash. All Walberg stands except the Tama stool. Yes the floor toms are covered with hula grass skirts... when in Rome...

The set has triggers because sometimes I use an Alesis D4 with it - 2 on the snare, so when you play near one, in addition to the live snare and a low snare sample, you get hand clamps as well. The kick trigger is built into the old school bass drum muffler. There's some comedy when the 10" tacked head tom triggers a gated tom sample.

The set was patterned after the set in the Gretsch logo with the cymbal coming straight out of the kick and the set Buddy Rich had when he was a tot on the front of Mel Torme's book.

My 2 cents is that the whole thing of calf batter with plastic reso sucks because the calf bounces off the inside of the plastic batter and the plastic and calf don't blend, so you need calf top and bottom.

The red pearl on the kick is embarrassing (Barnum & Bailey) and it will be removed and homemade pine varnish used to finish it organically.

It feels like you're driving a small train when you play this set, it gives you a "take no prisoners" attitude when you play. The sound, with the old K's is about 90% drums and 10% cymbals, so it's a jungle-fest.

[IMG]http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp231/kaaawa2000/REBOP3.jpg[/IMG]

I get what you are saying, but I'm trying to lay the groundwork for others to build upon. There really are no audio/video samples out there of the options. That's what this thing has been about. If I were to just take one drummers opinion, it would make all of this moot. I agree with you, but this has to be data driven if it's going to be valid. You can jump onboard and provide audio/video samples of the calfskin sounds. That would help. There are MANY drummers out there that have never experimented with these options. Dig in if you want. It's a "put your money where your mouth is" type of challenge. This forum is the most logical place to carry this out. It becomes a win/win for all. You get to be a part of re-educating drummers on the value of calf. The drummers get the education which will have a ripple effect. ...and with the increase of orders, maybe the doggone tanners will get their act together...or get competition. Either way...win/win.

I have what most would consider good recording gear and I really don't think that digital audio can capture the sound of the calf heads, you need to hear it live.

Ditto for my old K's, any recording doesn't do them justice, let alone one made into an mp3.

So unfortunately it seems like you need to hear these things live.

Thanks Mcjnic for the video... are you working towards some side by side comparisons in the future?