Arguments ? Some all in good fun razzing is now arguments?...Jeez.... My question is, how many Oaklawn era Camco/Jasper shelled 24s w/o re-rings would we need to see before they would no longer be considered a prototype?

Original? Prototype? Why only 24" bass drums?

I have seen enough to consider them original especially since we now have dates pinning them to the tail end of Oaklawn. I had a hard time believing they would just randomly make a bass drum w/o re-rings unless they actually ran out of material.

The prototype name may apply here but why only 24" bass drums? When making a drum is it harder to build a 24" shell w/o re-rings or a 12" shell? I don't make drums so I'm asking a serious question that I do not know the answer to. I would think for a true prototype that they would've built an entire kit w/o rings. Could it be that they decided re-rings were not necessary in 24" bass drums? There are just so many questions that go unanswered IMO.

I've said in the past that I'm not quick to jump to conclusions and I'm sorry if that offends anyone. But in the past I have jumped to conclusions as soon as I saw something odd. Which usually ended up proving me wrong.

I'm not perfect by any means and I don't consider myself an expert either. That name should go to JoLo, a man that knows the ins and outs of Camco better than anyone I know. I learn so much from him.

One last thing. I often use the phrase "I've never seen that before". Please don't assume that I'm saying it doesn't exist or isn't original. I'm simply saying that I've never seen that before.

So towards the end of the Oaklawn period 70'-71', it seems that players started to ask for the bigger sized bass drums. Could it be possible that Camco just didn't have them available so they got them from somewhere else?

What seems odd to me is that by browsing through the 1962, 1965 and 1967 catalogs, we see that Camco always advertised 24" bass drums.

Where those only used as parade drums or were they also offered as part of a drum kit? Somebody here on this thread asked for data or info on a "real" Camco Oaklawn 24" bass drum. Anybody ever saw, played or owed a 1960's Oaklawn 24" bass drum with re-rings?

That could be possible too.

Going back to George Way he offered 22,24 & 26. Then in the 1961 catalog he added 20" bass drums. Most of the GW kits that pop up have 22" bass drums. I have 2 full kits with 22" bass drums. I also have a 20 and 26 that I scored as singles. I've never seen nor heard of a GW 24 but I'm sure they are out there somewhere.

When Camco took over in 1961 small bass drums were in vogue so most of the early Oaklawn kits have 20" bass drums with a few 18". Rarely do 22" or 24" bass drums pop up but they are out there. By the late 60's and early 70's bigger bass drums started to become the norm. So far more 22" bass drums were made in that time frame along with some 24s and a few 26s.

I have seen two Oaklawn examples with 24" bass drums. Both kits had re-rings and winged badges. I've also seen one example of a 26" bass drum which also had re-rings and the winged badge.

Since there are no date stamps I can only make a guess as to them being mid-60's to '71 (end of Oaklawn era) thru some tell tale signs of the other drums in the kit.

The other glaring question that continues to elude me is whether the oval badge stood alone the last years of manufacturing. Or was the badge used right along with the winged badge until the end?

No Stef, That's not possible because both of mine are Jasper shells as well as the other two we have seen. All four also came with drum kits and not as parade drums. I do remember talking about Dolfans 24" with re-rings numerous times but never saw pictures of the interior. As for the oval badges, I think the estimation of time frame is correct towards the end of the Oaklawn era. I also heard or read about the story years ago about the employee being ordered to throw out a whole box of them. The one Dolfan brought up a few months ago. This is just a guess, but it seems to me the oval badges might have been a cost cutting move towards the end of that era that resulted in too many kits being returned....The story which I am pretty sure is true, rings of anger. That would make sense instead of telling them to just not use them any longer. Here are my 2 24", Thank God no one ever drilled in after market hardware or mounts.

The employee was from Kustom in the beginning of the Chanute era not the Oaklawn era. Oval badge was most definitely a cost cutting move. No re-rings is also a cost cutting move. But again, why only 24s?

When I 1st heard the story about the oval badges, I don't remember a Kustom employee or a Chanute era employee being mentioned or specified. It seems if it was during the Chanute era why bother even telling the story, when everything Oaklawn was getting thrown out anyway...But in any case it's good to get it straight. Who knows the why on only the 24s, but now we have seen 4 winged badged Oaklawn era 24s without re-rings. Not so much as one with them, but I am sure some will show up one day. I know mine sound better than any other bass drum I have ever heard or played and at the time when I bought the 1st one, I was a die hard thin shelled re-ring fanatic... I looked for pictures of of your 24 but only found the one showing just the front head with a 14" mounted on top. Yours is a Chanute era w/rings?

Well that's why I told the story. Drum companies never threw anything out, they used up what they had before using the new parts or badges. I found it very interesting that they threw out boxes of badges. I also found it interesting that Kustom went back to the more expensive to make winged badge.

Yes my 24" is Chanute with re-rings. If you check out the other thread, it's about the recent Ebay auction for the Oaklawn kit with a 24" bass drum. It also has no-rings and a winged badge. Oaklawn 24" bass drums are hard to come by so there are very few examples to compare to. I'm starting to wonder if all Oaklawn 24" bass drums have no rings.

The one 24" Oaklawn kit I saw years ago with re-rings was refinished so for all I know it could have the wrong badges on it.