My point is you need a number to designate those kits that are in the very best-est best shape - the most preserved. The scale could be 1 to 9.5, or 1 to 17.5897, but folks like 1 to 10. Since the scale applies to vintage drum sets, it is understood that "new" is simply not part of the deal.
Mitch
My coding system for cymbals is:
[list]
[*]NOS: new old stock (occasionally coded New In Box if original packaging there)
[*]Mint: no evidence of wear
[*]Excellent: light use and taken care of
[*]Good: moderate use showing
[*]Fair: showing its age
[*]Poor: rough but usable, usually specific faults recorded (eg keyhole)
[/list]
This scale was created as a tradeoff between being too complex (or too many fine categories) to apply easily, versus too short to give sufficient variation for statistical analysis. Most importantly the scale is published on the web (along with the associated research results) and freely available. It also includes some photo illustrations of things like degree of keyhole.
Basically if the scale (and how to use it!) is not well defined then saying something is a 9 does not carry meaning which can be moved from one drum to another, or one person to another. It is like measuring the diameter of a snare drum with a ruler which is constantly in a state of flux -- getting longer and shorter gaps between the markings on it every few seconds. Two people wouldn't get the same diameter measurement on the same snare. Even one person measuring the diameter a few times would get different results.
In the measurement scale biz we study inter- and intra-rater reliability to understand the properties of scales and how repeatable and reliable they are in practical use. And that's even before we consider validity which is whether they measure what we want them to measure.
Obviously drums are more complex because they have so many different parts. Cymbals are more like coins in terms of their (relative) simplicity. So I'm sticking to cymbals. :2Cents:
I Would not agree more.....................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
picture are the key to define quality, poor pics lack definition, and some pics do not lend credence to the drum, but some people words are good enough for me as in some experts here, some so called pros are only going on to gather inventory buy low to sell high as in most here do myself included, but I agree presentation is everything, but also know most deals are accurately describe from a sellers knowledge of what he or she has and may be has a limited knowledge of collector drums ,I don't blame some high end sellers here to doubt the merchandise and I too have been burnt by the so called word of a amateur but lets face it most of us geezers here were around when some of the drums we covet, were brand new, and now we see there aging and know the difference while others of a younger gen don't quite understand whats up and do not know the difference or don't care, selling mediocre goods are pretty much whats out here and very few drums are of very high collector quality, I personally don't no ever will sell a drum with out a fair and rigorous grade, going from my experience, I know whats up with 50's/60's Ludwig (some earlier stuff too) when I sell something I accurately grade the item as to flaws in and out of drum, but who makes any one here a grading expert I think only a very few of us here would qualify ...
I agree Gary. I do think there are vintage 10 gear out there. I've had them. I've had drums/kits that go above the 10 mark as they've hit it on all fronts with little if any wear.
I bought a BDP J-fest a while back & it's in this category - even with that weird wave businesses & scratching that Ludwig somehow did when applying the wrap at the factory. I'm only somewhat of an expert when it comes to individual items that I have in front of me: it's exactly like getting to know someone and his idiosyncrasies. I work on so few kits that I forget in my old age since it's not an everyday thing.
c
My coding system for cymbals is:[list][*]NOS: new old stock (occasionally coded New In Box if original packaging there)[*]Mint: no evidence of wear [*]Excellent: light use and taken care of [*]Good: moderate use showing [*]Fair: showing its age [*]Poor: rough but usable, usually specific faults recorded (eg keyhole)[/list]
With reference to your scale:
10 NOS
9 Mint
Hardware and heads: original,
Shell : perfect condition, unmodified
Finish: perfect condition without fade
8 Mint:
Hardware and heads: original parts, non original heads
Shell: perfect condition, unmodified
Finish: Perfect condition lightly faded, single scratches acceptable
7 Excellent:
Hardware and heads: original parts, non original heads
Shell: Perfect condition, unmodified
Finish: Very good condition lightly to moderate even faded without cracks, single scratches acceptable
6 Excellent:
Hardware and heads: Original parts (mixed era) , non original heads
Shell: Very good condition, unmodified.
Finish: Very good condition moderate even fade without cracks,
several scratches acceptable
5 Good:
Hardware and heads: Most of parts original (mixed era), non original heads
Shell: Good condition, acceptable mod: bearing edge trued(professional).
Finish: Good condition moderate even fade with several cracks,
several scratches acceptable
4 Good:
Hardware and heads: Some of parts original (mixed era), non original heads
Shell: Good condition, acceptable mod: bearing edge trued (professional), single non factory small holes (rail consolette)
Finish: Good condition moderate to heavy even fade with several cracks, several scratches acceptable
3 Fair:
Hardware and heads: Some of parts original (mixed era), non original heads, light corrosion
Shell: Moderate condition (some cracks or corrosion), acceptable mod: bearing edge trued (non professional), bass drum shell drilled for tom mount
Finish: Acceptable condition moderate to heavy uneven fade with cracks, scratches
2 Fair:
Hardware and heads: Some of parts original (mixed era), non original heads, serious corrosion on some elements
Shell: Moderate condition (some cracks or corrosion, or flaking), mod: bearing edge trued (non professional), bass drum shell drilled for tom mount, legs position changed
Finish: Acceptable condition, heavy uneven fade with cracks, scratches, lifted seams, small damaged or missing wrap areas.
1 Poor
Hardware and heads: Some of parts original (mixed era), non original heads, serious corrosion on most of elements
Shell: Poor condition, cracks or heavy corrosion, or flaking, mod: bearing edge trued (non professional), bass drum shell drilled for tom mount, legs position changed, moisture traces,
Finish: Heavy uneven fade with cracks, scratches, lifted seams, large damaged or missing wrap areas.
Hope it is comprehensive somehow. Feel free to update!
so now with all this input, who becomes the authority?
.....the buyer....? :)
Stop with the original heads crap. Enough already, original heads is a plus but shouldn`t matter as to the grade of condition of a drum.
It`s like saying that your 57 Chevy has original brake shoes and drums. Items that ware and render the product useless, like stretched out heads or snare wires that stretched out beyond use cannot be considered when grading a drum.
They are expendable and NOT a permanent part of the drum.
That`s like saying the fuel tank ran empty and the car drops it`s value.
Stop with the original heads crap. Enough already, original heads is a plus but shouldn`t matter as to the grade of condition of a drum. It`s like saying that your 57 Chevy has original brake shoes and drums. Items that ware and render the product useless, like stretched out heads or snare wires that stretched out beyond use cannot be considered when grading a drum. They are expendable and NOT a permanent part of the drum. That`s like saying the fuel tank ran empty and the car drops it`s value.
I had calfskin heads in my mind when I written that. It makes difference, also in case of RB Gretsch original Permatone plastic heads.
I almost bought a Stradivarius the other day, but then I realized it no longer had the original strings.....
