I saw something similar on my late 1980's Ludwig 6,5" Supra.

I've posted some pictures on this forum and was told it was somehow normal for the stuff that came out of the Ludwig factories in that period.

Don't know about Gretsch,...

Hmm...even though some of you guys suggests that this was made by some amateur who bought an undrilled shell and finished it himself.

-I'm not so sure. The friend who gave this drum to me bought it used in the early 80's and I doubt that Gretsch would sell you an undrilled shell back then. And even if you could get a shell from them, why would you go through all the trouble just to build an exact copy of a drum that you could easily buy from them instead. I bet that building it yourself would make it far more expensive than getting it from Gretsch.

And, there is this sticker inside the shell with model- and serial number.

/Johan M

All I have to say is there is no way on earth that Paul Cooper at Gretsch would ever let a shell like this leave the factory. If this is late 70's early 80's (before Fred bought the name back) in the Baldwin years... maybe they did have Q/C issues back then. I've read where Baldwin was entirely fed up with the 'drum buisness' in the early 80's and just wanted to get out. That was very fortunate for Fred Gretsch and the rest of us "Gretsch" fans in my humble opinion.

Ya - this shell looks very bad.

Gretsch does make very nice drums. Sure, there are bound to be some mistakes made here and there. But, this drum would have been sent right back to the factory if indeed it did come from there....don't you think?

I ordered a Custom USA shellpack last year and when it arrived at the retailer we went over every drum right out of the box - as you should do. There were no Q/C issues.

Can you imagine this shell arriving in your possession? I mean....who would keep it? It just does not add up that this drum was sent out to someone or a retailer somewhere and they actually kept it.

Gary. I totally agree with you. Gretsch has made some of the best drums you could find. If someone had tried to sell me this drum as new, I would have walked out of that store and never returned.

Even if Gretsch had quality problems during a period of time , they must have been pretty desperate to ship a drum in this condition.

On the other hand, the possibility that someone would have gone through so much trouble to build a Gretsch copy is really far fetched as well.

Could it be a pre production drum, something they built just to see what a 20-lugger would look like? -A drum that somehow found its way out of the factory even if it wasn't intended too?

-It sure would be intresting to see what another drum of this model looks like under the lugs...Anyone?

/Johan M

I think the most likely scenario is that someone knew a Gretsch employee who let them into the shop to build their own snare drum. I cannot fathom in any measure how that drum would have passed quality control - even if quality control was at an all-time low. That is obviously the work of someone who does not drill holes in shells for a living.

It wouldn't surprise me if it's original. I've seen some really goofy stuff from Gretsch, especially between the late '60s and mid '80s.

I had a RB 8x12, original blue sparkle, where all 5 batter side lugs were drilled in the wrong spot, plugged, painted over, and then the drum was redrilled and wrapped. It left the factory that way.

On a kit I have from '68 (which happens to be one of the best sounding Gretsch kits I've heard), SEVERAL of the lugs are "off", not in alignment. It's nuts.

There's a member of this forum with a mid-70s snare where the beds are one complete panel off from the strainer/butt.

I've also seen a lot of mis-drills, oddly-cut beds and edges, factory extra holes, major lacquer/stain problems and mismatches...you name it.

When your drum was made (circa 1980), it was an especially crazy time with management and ownership. Heck, from '79 to '83 there were 6 different badges!

This is what I refer to as "The Baldwin Years" and I have heard of some quality control issues during this era.

But, still.....I have never seen anything like what is shown on this thread. It just is over-the-top bad quality and should never be associated with a Gretsch drum of today. If a drum like this were to somehow leave the factory (don't see that happening but 'what if') in today's Gretsch market I would think there would be an investigation into the matter and the buyer would be taken care of asap. You can't do stuff like that in today's market and hope to survive - especially with a name like Gretsch.

All the above aside............if I had this drum now (not initially of course) I would keep it as a conversation piece.....in a positive kind of way. I'm sure Fred Gretsch would have something to say about it as well. And I'm not in any way saying he has to defend his company because of this drum. Gretsch is top notch in my world of drums. They have a fantastic history. Like I already have said....it is very good that Fred Gretsch bought it back when he did.

These are my thoughts on the matter..........looking in and commenting as a Gretsch fan.

Gary, I totally agree. I'm a major Gretsch fan, and always will be. Every single US drum company has had their low points, and periods of bad quality control - it wasn't just Gretsch (by a longshot). I can think of VERY screwy examples of bad quality control from Ludwig, Rogers, Slingerland, and Camco. It does indeed make for interesting conversation, and it's neat to learn about the various histories of company (mis)management, etc. Gretsch is one of the few companies that not only survived the rough years, but came back stronger than ever.

2nd That! Even Camco sent out some that should have never left the factory. I have a 16x16" Walnut Stain Floor Tom, 6ply Jasper era Oaklawn that they drilled the FT brackets 1st, then had to plug 2 of the holes to fit the 8 bottom lugs in. On the same floor tom, there is a big chunk missing from one of the glue ring about 1/2" from the bearing edge. The reason I believe it left the factory this way is because there is glue spatter present where the wood is missing. From the same era, I have a 14x24" that came without rerings but it's a 6ply Jasper shell that sounds awesome...Everything else is right just doesn't have glue rings for some reason...

I've seen quite a few lug alignment issues on gretsch drums of that era. They sound great but have some quirks, I can live with them. Having said that the 16" tom on my walnut kit is un-tunable, I have to pull it apart and check the edges...