Okay for now let's please forget about the stripped Charlie Watts kit for now... let's try to stay focused... I need to see one of these so called Artist kits or official documents that support such arguments that they actually made them and gave them to artists. Basically I'm not convinced yet.

* Not too long ago we were all in a uproar over former Buddy Rich cymbals that were being questioned... then out of the blue sky someone produced FACTORY DOCUMENTS (a invoice) showing cymbal details etc with Buddy Rich's name connection him to a particular set of cymbals and THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT... some type of solid proof (a document) that Gretsch made natural maple RB kits from 1960 to 1969.

Basically if Gretsch made a natural maple RB kits then one please come forward and present yourself.

I don't see how an old invoice would be any more convincing than an advertisement that Gretsch placed in music magazines showing a photo of Charlie with a natural maple set and stating that "Charlie's Natural Polish Maple Outfit contains...."

Charli (as he now spells it) is still alive (86)...I wonder if he'd remember this set.

K.O. unfortunately at this point some 45+ years later and whatever documents even if it's a simple factory invoice is produced showing an "Artist" natural maple kit (however we pray for stronger evidence) then a simple factory invoice (like the Buddy Rich cymbals invoice) with such details will support one's argument.

The only solid knowledge we know at this point is that yes Gretsch did make wood finished drums during the 1960s which was only walnut finish as shown in catalog #44... plus, I own two 1969 RB walnut finish kits... so basically we have documentation (catalog #44) and a few real walnut finished RB kits have been seen and as for Natural maple RB kits (no documentation yet) and no REAL natural maple RB kits have yet to be seen.

We can beyond a shadow, say Natural finish was in the factory because they made a **** ton of NM hoops.

The chances of a maple finish going on a kit for a sponsor, TV show or individual, in the 60`s are better than not at all.

It was on hand.

I've read this whole thread and I think I must have missed something. Really scratching my head here.

1) what part of this ad http://www.gretschdrums.com/ebooks/artist_ads/index.html#/30/ do people find not convincing? That's a maple round badge kit advertised by Gretsch, case closed right? They even publish the name of the finish as "natural maple polish" in the exact same manner that Max Roach's kit if referred to as "silver sparkle," quotation marks and all.

2) What does Charlie Watts's stripped kit even have to do with this argument?

3) Why is this thread so tense? The vehemence of opinions stated on this matter seems very out of proportion to the importance of the topic.

4) "Exclusive" disappearing drum spurs, rofl. Nice try, Gretsch.

86 isn't so old, he might just remember it. I google imaged him and yeah he's behind a *lot* of kits but still...it would be very cool if someone asked.

It would be funny if he said they didn't make kits in that finish when that picture was taken...

...what?

Mitch

Okay guys, I give up on this topic... but just know until factory documents stating as such are produced OR we actually see a real factory original (1960 to 1969) natural maple RB Gretsch kit they simply don't exist. PERIOD.

It's obvious this topic needs further investigation and should be answered only by Gretsch (1960 to 1969) RB experts and not a bunch of amateur collectors.

So Gretsch Consumer Relation personnel don't count? :confused:

Quotes from undocumented sources don't count.

What's "undocumented" about Christopher Coyle | Gretsch Consumer Relations?