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Gretsch RB Maple Finish Last viewed: 52 seconds ago

Posts: 2010 Threads: 19
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From Osahead2

K.O., just because a famous drummer in 1965 was photographed in a ad with a natural maple RB Gretsch kit doesn't necessarily mean 100% that that natural maple kit pictured was not a stripped drum set.

Seriously?

Okay, but if Gretsch chose to strip a wrapped set (rather than use raw shells to make them from scratch) then they'd still be "factory" natural maple drums. By the same token how do we know that Gretsch didn't wrap, then unwrap and refinish your Walnut stain drums? Obviously they didn't but I think it's just as obvious that Persip's set wasn't created that way either.

My aside about the lacquer vs. wrapped shells was simply meant to point out that there were other factors at play besides the appearance and/or sound of the drums. Maybe all the Gretsch (or other company's) 1960's endorsees would have preferred the look or sound of lacquered drum shells but that doesn't mean that the company WANTED them using them. Of course now lacquered Gretsch drums are the top of the line and the wrapped drums are cheaper as Gretsch puts a LOT more labor into creating those glossy nitro lacquer finishes.

Not trying to ruffle anyone's feathers here, just debating some extremely arcane drum lore.

Posted on 9 years ago
#41
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From infiniteninjas

If you just want your shells to resonate more, why are youis playing vintage drums to begin with? And why are you playing RB Gretsch when Rogers drums from the same era have much sharper bearing edges and are ported properly, and will resonate much more?

Okay, I totally understand your point and the only new kit I own is 1999 Austin Fibes 18/12/14 jasper shell bop kit with w&a rail mount but I play/own vintage kits because I love them... Oh by-the-way, I also own a beautiful all original black 1963 Cleveland era citadel 18/12/14 bop kit and yes, I agree it sounds really amazing...

~ A true Gretsch & Camco fanatic ~
Posted on 9 years ago
#42
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From K.O.

Seriously?Okay, but if Gretsch chose to strip a wrapped set (rather than use raw shells to make them from scratch) then they'd still be "factory" natural maple drums. By the same token how do we know that Gretsch didn't wrap, then unwrap and refinish your Walnut stain drums? Obviously they didn't but I think it's just as obvious that Persip's set wasn't created that way either.My aside about the lacquer vs. wrapped shells was simply meant to point out that there were other factors at play besides the appearance and/or sound of the drums. Maybe all the Gretsch (or other company's) 1960's endorsees would have preferred the look or sound of lacquered drum shells but that doesn't mean that the company WANTED them using them. Of course now lacquered Gretsch drums are the top of the line and the wrapped drums are cheaper as Gretsch puts a LOT more labor into creating those glossy nitro lacquer finishes.Not trying to ruffle anyone's feathers here, just debating some extremely arcane drum lore.

K.O.,

I'm good my friend as this is educational to me... but I'm afraid this topic will be a major debate for years to come until solid proof is presented so... until then I'll just sit back and will continue to enjoy what I have and will keep learning all I can about American vintage drums.

~ A true Gretsch & Camco fanatic ~
Posted on 9 years ago
#43
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From Osahead2

Okay, I totally understand your point and the only new kit I own is 1999 Austin Fibes 18/12/14 jasper shell bop kit with w&a rail mount but I play/own vintage kits because I love them... Oh by-the-way, I also own a beautiful all original black 1963 Cleveland era citadel 18/12/14 bop kit and yes, I agree it sounds really amazing...

I just said that to illustrate that even if lacquered shells sound more wide open, that's not objectively a better sound.

I've never been convinced that wrapping drums has a significant effect on the resonance. But if it did, then maybe the wrap is a really important part of the vintage sound that so many people love.

60's Gretsch Progressive Jazz Green Sparkle
'61 Slingerland Bop Kit Sea Green Rewrap
Round Badge Bop Kit Clone Red Sparkle
'67 Pearl President 13/16/22 Red Oyster Pearl
Posted on 9 years ago
#44
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Huh... and that's why nearly all major American drum manufacturers around 1970 went with nearly all lacquer drum kits (and still do to this day offer lacquer kits) is because they knew for a fact that lacquer shells sound absoulty terrible...???? I'm sorry Infiniteninjas, I'm not buying that but that's your opinion.

Look guys, I'm not here on this thread to satisfy or convince anybody what shells or what sound is... I'm here to argue with ya'll the unproven fact that natural maple RB (1960 to 1969) Gretsch kits simply don't exist.

~ A true Gretsch & Camco fanatic ~
Posted on 9 years ago
#45
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From Osahead2

nearly all major American drum manufacturers around 1970 went with nearly all lacquer drum kits.

That's... just obviously not true. I don't know why you would think that. Or am I misunderstanding you here?

"Around 1970" was when lacquer kits became widely available. That's not the same thing as companies going "with nearly all lacquer drum kits." Have you forgotten about the huge number of white and black wrapped American kits from the 70's? Butcher block? Yellow?

Google image search "70's drums." The overwhelming majority of images that Google comes up with are of wrapped drums.

60's Gretsch Progressive Jazz Green Sparkle
'61 Slingerland Bop Kit Sea Green Rewrap
Round Badge Bop Kit Clone Red Sparkle
'67 Pearl President 13/16/22 Red Oyster Pearl
Posted on 9 years ago
#46
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From infiniteninjas

That's... just obviously not true. I don't know why you would think that. Or am I misunderstanding you here?"Around 1970" was when lacquer kits became widely available. That's not the same thing as companies going "with nearly all lacquer drum kits." Have you forgotten about the huge number of white and black wrapped American kits from the 70's? Butcher block? Yellow? Google image search "70's drums." The overwhelming majority of images that Google comes up with are of wrapped drums.

Yes, I know... after 1970 we saw a ton of new ugly wraps introduced (mainly Ludwig/Rogers) and many colors were discontinued BUT we also saw a super huge Increase in lacquer kits (mainly Gretsch)... and now back on the original topic... as cheap as you would think they were to make Gretsch still didn't make natural maple RB kits before 1970.

~ A true Gretsch & Camco fanatic ~
Posted on 9 years ago
#47
Posts: 2010 Threads: 19
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Scene: A photography studio located in a loft in Brooklyn in the mid 1960's.

Charlie Persip, a jazz drummer of some renown, enters carrying a set of drums in bags. He meets the photographer and the Gretsch advertising manager.

Charlie: Hey Guys great to be here. I hope you don't mind but I brought in my own set for the shoot. They are those sparkle drums you gave me a couple of months ago. Thing is I peeled the sparkle off and had them clear coated. I was pretty lucky that the shells looked nice underneath the wrap and I think you'll like what you see.

Gretsch advertising manager: That's cool Charlie. You know, between the photo shoot, the layouts, and the magazine ad buys we're going to be laying out a few grand on this. I think it would be a great idea to use that money and effort to showcase a product that we don't even offer. Wet their appetites for something they can't get. Yeah, that's a great idea.

or......

Scene: A photography studio located in a loft in Brooklyn in the mid 1960's.

Charlie Persip, a jazz drummer of some renown, enters carrying a set of drums in bags. He meets the photographer and the Gretsch advertising manager.

Charlie: Hey Guys great to be here. I hope you don't mind but I brought in my own set for the shoot. They are those sparkle drums you gave me a couple of months ago. Thing is I peeled the sparkle off and had them clear coated. I was pretty lucky that the shells looked nice underneath the wrap and I think you'll like what you see.

Gretsch Advertising Manager: WTF have you been smoking Charlie!?

Posted on 9 years ago
#48
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From K.O.

Scene: A photography studio located in a loft in Brooklyn in the mid 1960's.Charlie Persip, a jazz drummer of some renown, enters carrying a set of drums in bags. He meets the photographer and the Gretsch advertising manager.Charlie: Hey Guys great to be here. I hope you don't mind but I brought in my own set for the shoot. They are those sparkle drums you gave me a couple of months ago. Thing is I peeled the sparkle off and had them clear coated. I was pretty lucky that the shells looked nice underneath the wrap and I think you'll like what you see.Gretsch advertising manager: That's cool Charlie. You know, between the photo shoot, the layouts, and the magazine ad buys we're going to be laying out a few grand on this. I think it would be a great idea to use that money and effort to showcase a product that we don't even offer. Wet their appetites for something they can't get. Yeah, that's a great idea.or......Scene: A photography studio located in a loft in Brooklyn in the mid 1960's.Charlie Persip, a jazz drummer of some renown, enters carrying a set of drums in bags. He meets the photographer and the Gretsch advertising manager.Charlie: Hey Guys great to be here. I hope you don't mind but I brought in my own set for the shoot. They are those sparkle drums you gave me a couple of months ago. Thing is I peeled the sparkle off and had them clear coated. I was pretty lucky that the shells looked nice underneath the wrap and I think you'll like what you see.Gretsch Advertising Manager: WTF have you been smoking Charlie!?

When everyone in the thread is convinced except one person, the rest of us should just give up. Sometimes when you reason with someone against strongly held beliefs, their brain just digs in its heels rather than actually considering what's being presented. It's been studied.

60's Gretsch Progressive Jazz Green Sparkle
'61 Slingerland Bop Kit Sea Green Rewrap
Round Badge Bop Kit Clone Red Sparkle
'67 Pearl President 13/16/22 Red Oyster Pearl
Posted on 9 years ago
#49
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Scene: A Gretsch contracted photographer and a Gretsch Advertising Manager are sent to the studio to make sure nothing goes wrong during the photo shoot... everybody is happy with the photos and the ad finally goes out to print... and guess what... the darn 12" tom is upside down... and on some kits we see no Gretsch logo bass drum head?

But yet this is a GRETSCH paid advertising and they allowed for upside toms and no Gretsch logo heads at a Gretsch paid photo shoot... gee what a excellent way to showcase your product with upside down drums and with missing Gretsch logo opportunity...

Basically... whatever the endorse wanted to do it's appears nobody cared... and that probably holds true for Charlie Persip and his stripped kit.

~ A true Gretsch & Camco fanatic ~
Posted on 9 years ago
#50
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