Interesting stuff Tommy. I was stumped on when Buddy used Ludwig three times in his career but I had to remember that he used Ludwig and Ludwig as a child star. I almost forgot about that.

I actually prefer the Ludwig rail the best and I know that Buddy used a set with a rail and wood snare in the muppets battle with animal. I have no idea if he ever used a set like that on the road. I only saw Buddy once and it was in 1984. By this time Buddy was using the radio king set and unfortunately I was only 13. I can't complain though as at least I got to see him.

Ludwig sure has been plagued with issues regarding WMP. I think the 80's version of WMP looks beautiful but it's too bad it just shrinks right up. I bought my first brand new Ludwig set in 1990 right after I graduated high school. I loved the set but within a year the wrap shrunk, cracked and split all over the place. It was fixed by Ludwig twice until I gave up on them all together and went vintage.

Fortunately now Ludwig is making some of the best drums ever. I have a few small pet peeves myself when it comes to small details but the drums are made very well now.

Here is Buddy on the muppets.

Hey Kurt!

Yes indeed ... you got it! His first go 'round with Ludwig was with Ludwig & Ludwig around 1919 billed as "Traps the Drum Wonder" ! :) Regarding The Muppet Show performance with "Animal", who was in reality, the GREAT Ronnie Verrell: That set of Ludwig's were supplied for the performance by Ludwig. They were not Buddy's regular touring/nightly set. Brand new out of the box for that performance .. and .. we have to wonder WHO Buddy gave those away to afterwards??!! :) Main reason for this is: For starters, the rail consolette! Buddy never used one of those tom holders for any length of time outside of some "supplied" sets for certain performances where he didn't have his own set .. and .. the snare drum of course! On The Muppet Show performance he is playing the wood model snare drum that Ludwig cataloged and sold with the set "off the rack" if you will. Buddy never played the Ludwig #482 5X14 wood model in WMP ... yet there it is for this performance.

I don't blame Ludwig in any way, shape, or form for what was happening with pearl wraps back then. It was just the way it was ... unfortunately. The rivets, while most certainly hideous!, were actually a pretty novel approach to a major problem ... except, well ... it didn't work. Again, A for effort!, but F for results, even though it was not their fault. However, in their defense, the shrinking/splitting happened over time ... not right away. So nice that wraps are all STABLE with regard to shrink and split today! :)

Tommyp

Drums, Who needs drums ? Didn`t he play the theater ?

He did! He did! :) GREAT comment!!!

Tommyp

In WFL II's biography he addresses the rivet thing, or rather the problem with the new wrap formulations shrinking so badly. Apparently at the time they were somewhat proud of the "solution" they had devised. The feeling being that their competition (ie: Slingerland mostly) would suffer from the same problem since they used the same sort of wrap and Ludwig had "solved" the problem by riveting the seams. But, for whatever reason, the problem didn't effect their competitors to the same degree AND the rivets didn't really work anyhow.

Despite their pride in having found this solution they seemingly went out of their way to try to keep the rivets from showing in any advertising shots of drums. I only know of a couple places where you can clearly see the rivets on a drum in a Ludwig brochure or catalog.

So true! Incredibly RARE to catch a view of the rivets in pics or a catalog shot back then. Interestingly, one of the first times I actually saw the riveted seams was with Buddy's set played during the filming of the "Buddy Rich Up Close" performance at the Statler/Hilton from 1982. The DVD is great in that there are so many different camera angles, close ups, slo-motion, etc., that I saw the riveted seam on the bass drum I believe it was. That was the first time I had ever actually seen those rivets. Needless to say, back in 1982, and with this particular set of Buddy's, the seams were PERFECT!, as they hadn't even begun to think about shrinking ... yet. Agreed!, it was a novel approach to that particular problem. If only it had worked!

Tommyp

I am actually wondering if there will ever be a way to combat this problem. I actually have a 2012 classic maple set but I went with a champagne sparkle as I knew the wrap is thicker and would not shrink or have issue. Ludwig also high bonds wrap to shells with the wrap tite process so that helps as well. Still I know someone with a 2013 WMP set of Ludwigs and the wrap has moved around a little on him. Now I have no idea how he stores his drums when he is not gigging and I also know he gigs a lot. I just know that my set has been gigged over 300 times in everything from hot to cold to rain etc. My set still looks new and the wrap is perfect. I also take care of them when I'm not gigging though so that helps as well.

I actually saw Charlie Adams(who was amazing) do a clinic once in the 90's at one of the Chicago shows and he had a WMP canister throne that had wrap held on by duct tape! That was funny.....

It is funny though to think that Buddy cared about what mounts may have been on his sets. I say this because it looks like he could make the crappiest set look comfortable to play! You see him getting up on Ed Shaugnessy's double bass set with a full tuxedo on reaching for cymbals way above his head and he makes it look so damn easy. It's hard enough to wear a full tuxedo with the jacket and all and play drums but to then get on someone else's set and just burn the place down is ridiculous.

Kurt! ...

... so let's start with your last paragraph: Buddy always stated PUBLICLY that he could give a rat's tail about what hardware might be on or with his drums .... and for that matter, he would say the same about whatever drums he was playing at the time too! Fact is though, he did care ... at least to a degree anyway. This is borne out from his playing and then quickly abandoning certain brands. He just didn't .. for whatever his reasons .. like them! Goes without saying that yes, Buddy would play if they would pay! True enough!, but ... he still had to like the equipment or, bye bye. Your comment that he would just burn the place down on anyone's drums is certainly true. THAT just didn't matter to him ... but his own equipment did ... again, to a degree. All of our chat about his tom mount/mounts while with Ludwig from 1978 to 1982 is based on exactly what he DID PLAY on a nightly basis with his tour set. Someone obviously wanted that hybrid Modular mount and not the rail consolette as all the LIVE pics from this period bear that out. He was playing that mount for pretty much those four years, with an exception here and there as previously stated, due to a backline situation while doing a guest shot, or having drums supplied for a particular situation that were NOT his regular, night to night, touring set up. I truly have researched this stuff for decades, and have TONS of pics that back this up. Would Buddy play a set of Ludwigs from this period that had a rail consolette? Of course!, and he would sound every bit as incredible as he always did. But ... his own personal set/sets had the pre "hybrid" Modular mount .. or later .. the actual full production Modular mount. It may not have been Buddy specifically asking for that, but somebody was, and we have to assume it's because he liked it. I will mention here that Buddy B I T C H E D about the tom mount on his last set, the 1940's restored Slingerland Radio King's, as he had to keep that mount sturdy and tight with a pair of vice grips ... attached to the mount and drum while he played! For the record again though, if asked about his hardware or drum preferences PUBLICLY, he immediately passed it off as not caring in the least, and he made sure the guy asking was very aware of that too ... sometimes not so nicely either. A friend of mine caught BR and the band at Lennie's just outside of Boston in the early 70's, as Buddy had just signed on with Slingerland in 1968. The Slingerland Set-O-Matic tom mount had just come out .. and Buddy had the Slingerland rail consolette on his 1st Slingerland set in 1968 I might add .. and he asked Buddy what he thought about the NEW Slingerland Set-O-Matic tom mount. He said Buddy just about ripped his head off stating a tom mount is a tom mount!, I don't give a S**T! Well ... fast forward to 1984/85, and I guess he DID give a S**T! :) To sum up ... he used the pre Modular or the actual Modular tom mount from 1978 through 1982, regardless of what Ludwig cataloged his set with .. but .. that certainly didn't mean he didn't play a rail consolette here or there during this period. He also GAVE AWAY a LOT of these sets during this period, so when the NEW one arrived for his personal use, it had the hybrid or full production modular mount on it.

Regarding the wrap shrink/split issues: The sparkles never suffered from that particular affliction. It wasn't really the thickness, rather the actual formula/make up of the two. The pearls are manufactured differently. Joe Montineri told me this whole story once, but I forget exactly what the differences were. You were WISE to choose a wrap that wouldn't move! Interesting that your friend has a set of 2013's and the wrap is moving! That was supposed to be all set now! I know it is for the pearls supplied today for rewraps and the like. Joe Montineri would know about that too, as he does a lot in WMP! Too funny on Charlie Adams too! .. great player! .. but duct tape??!! Again, much like BR ... at that level, with an endorsement, I guess it doesn't matter. To all of us that take pride and care in our equipment, well, we'd be mortified! :)

Tommyp

That goes back to my earlier statement that he might have wanted something that could put his tom far to his left like the Swivomatic arm could. Ludwig may well have already had the modular stuff in the works by then in response to Rogers Memri-Loc line but it sure appears that they had to "cobble" something satisfactory together to suit Buddy's requirements. No one else that I know of was equipped with similar mounts until the Modular stuff was released (maybe Ed might have had similar mounts on his set, I'm not sure on that...but if he did it was probably after Buddy got them). Also interesting that, outside of a couple of backline sets, I never recall seeing Buddy using the standard center post mount that was ubiquitous on nearly every late 70's Ludwig set until the modular stuff came online.

In regards to wrap formulations a lot of the modern stuff uses a PVC backing which is pretty stable. The see through stuff like vintage Oyster Black still uses an acetate base which does seem to be prone to shrinking. The old stuff was a bit of a fire hazard (to put it mildly) and that may be the reason that there seemed to be a major change in the formulation around 1970.

Since the old wraps were really prone to shrinkage, yet seldom did to the degree that later "improved" wraps did I sometimes wonder if perhaps the issue was actually with the glue they were using. If they had to switch from a glue that held the wrap in a death grip and would not allow it to shrink except maybe a bit at the seam to one that wasn't up to the task that may have been the root cause of the problem. That would also fall more in line with the rivet solution if the thought was "we just need to hold this stuff down tighter".

K.O.!

I direct you to post #25 where I put up a pic of BR and Ed Shaughnessy's drum battle on The Tonight Show back in 1978. Ed Shaughnessy does indeed have the same tom mount as Buddy. :)

Tommyp