I can almost hear Buddy saying to his band members.... "Hey man, just be yourself and it will be groovy!" ;)

I bought twenty pairs of Vic Firth Sticks from Tommy's Drum Shop in Austin twenty years ago. I still use those, none have broken (I'm not necessarily a light player either).

You may be misinterpreting what I said. Probably most, maybe all, drummers break stuff. I'm not saying there's something wrong with those who do. Nor am I saying that we should all be robots and must move and set-up and play exactly alike. But with that said, if you break a lot of stuff, and you're complaining about the expense, or the fact that nobody lets you sit-in, then maybe you should look at "how" your playing.

You said "there's no right or wrong - if someone bust's up all their stuff each time they play they will get another job" - maybe that' the wrong. It can't be the right way to play if you end up quitting, because you bust up all your stuff, can it?

It's music and I hope it does come from your inner self, I agree completely, but you can express yourself, from deep within your soul and still use technique. Think about singing. You can sing from your heart but never hit a note and be completely off key and that's fine for you but are you making music? Your implying that learning how to play, hold the sticks, etc., impedes your ability to make music. To the contrary. it frees you to express yourself.

You can hit your drums with sledgehammers and garbage cans if you Like, and maybe it will be musical too. If you're happy it's all good. But there are ways to play without breaking as much of you're stuff and make music in the process.

Ok, Here's a picture of a pair of sticks used by Tris Imboden, drummer for Chicago, when they played at the MGM Grand at Foxwoods on 4/29/12. These are the sticks he used that night. I got them from a friend who donated a sum of money to cancer research for the opportunity to sing with Chicago. He got the sticks from Tris and gave them to me. I don't know if these are the only sticks he used that night but it is one of the pairs. No they're not broken but judging by the fact that they're splintered in the middle of the shaft from just one show I really don't think they'd make it through even two more shows. Now someone please step up and say that Tris Imboden doesn't play with "proper technique".

Maybe the stick has a flaw, maybe he made a bad rim shot or crashed a cymbal on it's up-swing, maybe his palms were sweaty and lost his grip ...

I will step up and say AT THAT POINT he lost his technique. It happens to all of us at some point, but we're not talking about the once in a while issues of breaking a stick or two, we're talking about the players who go out of their way to destroy something on every performance of every song just for bragging rights on how many sticks, cymbals or heads they blew out on last nights show.

Beating the snot out of your instrument to the point of destruction doesn't prove you're a great player. I never saw YoYoMa shove his bow through his Cello, I never saw Bill Bruford bash his Simmons until it exploded ...

So, yes, it is technique.

There's a BIG difference between "proper technique" and "making music". SO big, in fact that they are 2 completely independent factors. You don't need to use proper technique to make music, and just because you use proper technique doesn't mean you're making music. Let's make sure we don't get away from ourselves and tie the two together...

[QUOTE=JRichard;247050]Maybe the stick has a flaw, maybe he made a bad rim shot or crashed a cymbal on it's up-swing, maybe his palms were sweaty and lost his grip ...

I will step up and say AT THAT POINT he lost his technique. It happens to all of us at some point,

Please tell me you're kidding. The stick is full of dents because he is using them on drums. It happens when you hit cymbals and play rim shots. Even the butts have dents from playing rim knocks. This is not from slipping up on "technique". It is from playing drums.

I think were disagreeing unnecessarily. Don't get me wrong it's an interesting discussion.

1-I don't think by looking at the picture any of us can tell exactly how much life is left in those sticks nor can anyone say with any accuracy how they came to be in that condition; stick flaw, bad hit, bad cymbal angle, normal wear and tear, etc. We can only speculate. Anything else is conjecture, unless you plan on having Tris weigh in on this.

2-It sounds like some folks think that this is an attack on drummers who break sticks, cymbals, or heads. I don't believe anyone is demeaning drummers who break stuff through normal playing.

3-Those of us who believe that technique can extend the life of gear, are NOT saying that stuff doesn't break, or that sticks never break, and I haven't heard anyone say that with good technique you will never break anything. Nor has anyone said that anyone who breaks something must not have good technique.

4-what we are saying is if you keep breaking stuff, and trashing your gear, and you don't want to do that maybe then technique can be an issue.

5-Also technique is not the enemy of making music. Many of the most musical drummers had immaculate technique. Example - Joe Morello.

So if you don't disagree with those points then whats left to debate? Unless you believe that you must trash your gear and play with improper technique to make music.

Best post so far... you get it some others here get it and some don't... it is all good, MCDrummer your points are all good but you are still missing the point which is just play, in all the years I have played I have bled, bruised, and sweated to near exhaustion but I never ever had a thought about "am I playing correctly or not , I so enjoyed playing live on stage so much i got lost in the experience each and every time at the end of the night if I had some fixing up to do then I just did it as part of that experience,,,, I guess my message is to all drummers in this day and age just play and don't get all caught up in the tech world, click tracks,remote triggers, suspension mounts,etc etc just friggin play your heart out all the rest will take care of it's self, I was about 14 when I saw Buddy Rich play one night my dad took me to a club in OKC I had never seen any thing like it by the end of the night he was exhausted, drenched in sweat and had the biggest smile on his face, a few years latter I saw Cream play in LA Ginger baker had that same look and was worn out from the physical output just to play 2 hours of extended Jams..... I knew I was on the right track then .... because i had that same look at the end of the night when I played...

Or, Benny Goodman, for that consideration.

"Sauseach" his own. Ludacris to broad-stroke a right or wrong way. Innovation would be non-existent if we did. Play on, play long & play the way your heart takes you!

B

PS - Not too cliche.