I wanted to bump this one to maybe hear some other opinions..band2

http://www2.gibson.com/News-Lifestyle/Features/en-us/hired-guns-0418-2011.aspx

Wayne -At the level of recording and producers it's a -business-! Musicians in popular bands can get away with anything during live shows/performances - that would never pass muster in a studio setting. All through record history 'hit men' have been brought in to do a specific job. Guitars, vocals, drums, nobody is immune to being subbed in the studio by a seasoned recording pro.

It has always been thus and will remain so in the world of produced and managed music groups. Indie labels is a whole other story and Indies may be what saves us from a world where everything you hear on the radio sounds the same.

John

The wrecking crew, the swampers from muscle shoals,the funk brothers of motown,These are just some examples of a full band minus the vocals of a hit record or recording of a said group. It isn't just the drummer that gets replaced.

speaking of muscle shoals i was there in there 90's it is all boarded up

I think the drummer is often the first to go. And the reason is clear: It's the most critical instrument in a recording sesssion and most difficult to play flawlessly. The work is often done by saving a drumming track from a play through, or sometimes they can save both drums and bass. Then the rest is overdubbed. However, many attempt to play the drums and only a few reach to the level necessary in the studio for both economy and accuracy.

That said, the guys are correct in saying that often the whole band goes minus the voices. Without the voices you have nothing recognizable of the band at all.

Some drummers can lay down tracks in the first 1 or 2 takes where there is freshness to the track,but too many track takes can lead to a lack of natural precision with feel and can be tiring to the listener`s ear.Everything in music comes from the "Cookin` Section" (bass and drums), where all else is layered.But it all comes from the back forward in either live or recorded.If the drummer is weak then even the best players in the band will sound weak and again in live or recorded situations.Drums are the heart of any track and have to be be as humanly perfect as possible and if not...then someone else will get the call and may i add that applies to any other instrument as well but drum tracks are paramount.Some of the bigger names in music have their choice of great players but then again... it all falls on which of those great players are available at that touring time.And one last thing if i may...some drummers record better than they play live and vice-versa-nature of the beast i suppose.

Wayne

> often the whole band goes minus the voices.

I'll tell you a story of pirates and bandits... I got signed by an outfit called, Elan Associates at the tender age of 17. Those L.A. crooks from Cali even got me a union card so I could work joints in New York where booze was being served. The 'job' consisted of on-call recording sessions and contract work/gigs with the other studio musicians. Elan owned a recording studio on Bleeker St. in the Village and it was busy every day. They would charge managers and producers exorbitant fees for studio time, engineer, etc. etc. One of the ways those pirates made extra money on sessions was, they would tell the producer, band manager, whoever, that they absolutely needed to replace one of the musicians on the recording. There was always one or two guys in any given band that simply didn't play well. The land-sharks at Elan would immediately offer to replace the weak link with one of Elans' studio guys (us!) If the manager, or producer bought their line of wholesale made-up BS, they'd get to charge off extra time in the studio, recording fees, added session fees for the in-house studio players, on and on, padding the bill as much as they could. I never said anything about it to the customers because I was being well paid and they were happy with my work. Shoot, the longer it took, the more I earned. Sharks is the only way to describe the way the owners conducted business. Sharks in suits. I ended up leaving because eventually, they screwed me out of money I had already worked for and earned.

Cut throat business... you need a lawyer on retainers just to survive.

John

Thank God Bernard Purdie was able to "save" all those early Beatles tracks!

Laughing H

First of all Muscle Shoals is thriving. "Fame" studio is still putting out some good product, as is "The Nutt House", "Wishbone", "Malaco", who purchased the second Muscle Shoals Sound building, and the original Jackson highway location of the original "Muscle Shoals Sound" where "The Black Keys" recorded their Grammy winning CD a couple years ago.

You can still go out any weekend and hear famous studio musicians, and musicians from well known bands, performing in the local clubs, and music venues. It's not a large place and everyone knows everybody else.

A lot of bands drummers are inexperienced, or just can't play steady and clean, tasteful, enough to make a song sound good. On the "Night Moves" LP, The Muscle Shoals Rythm Section played on the majority of that LP. My good friend and former music duo partner, Pete Carr providing the famous lead line on "Main Street". You might be surprised at the famous groups who used studio musicians. With today's recording software you can fix a lot of things, but I still cringe when a drummer wants me to remove my 4 piece studio Camco drums to bring in his 7 or 8 piece Pearl kit with 5 cymbals and double bass drum pedal. When I see that I know it is wise to not let them play mine. Then as they put on their drumming gloves I await the train wreck about to be unleashed. Wrench in a dryer. I know there are some great drummers who play large kits but never has a drummer that brought a large kit in my studio sounded good, could play to a click, or even play tasteful clean fills, or play in meter. That's why they are usually replaced with a studio drummer. If you notice, on most top 40 songs the drums are simple and solid. On Kodachrome, Roger Hawkins played the main Rythm on a 2" Reel tape box, then overdubbed drums. That is a great drum track though. Anyway I ramble........