Only Admins can see this message.
Data Transition still in progress. Some functionality may be limited until the process is complete.
Processing Attachment, Gallery - 183.37370%

do recut bearing edges affect value? Last viewed: 2 minutes ago

Posts: 5227 Threads: 555
Loading...

Could the set be a rewrapped set? Is that way the edges were re-cut?The way i look that this if you recut edges on a vintage set the value goes down alot.But as a player set i thing that 500.00 is high for this set.I would offer them 300.00 abd not go over 350.00.....Mikey

Posted on 13 years ago
#21
Posts: 5176 Threads: 188
Loading...

From vyacheslav

I confess, I have had bearing edges re-cut on a Vintage kit. It is an MIJ Gracy (round badge copy). 3 ply with re-rings. I had all the bearing edges and snare beds re-cut professionally by Precision Drum Company in New York, who are some of the best (if not THE best) in the industry at bearing edges. They sound TONS better than they did before! I don't give two craps about re-sale value. It's my kit and it's fun to play! How much could I get for a third hand MIJ anyway, modification or not?No offense meant to anyone, but if the modification actually IMPROVES the sound or functionality of the drum, why not? I don't really get the whole "leave it alone because it's vintage" thing. Maybe if it's rare or really collectible (like original Vistalites, original Radio Kings etc.), then I can see that argument (remember mine is a $250 "players" MIJ, not an original Rogers Mardi Gras). But ultimatley, why would you NOT want the drums to sound better? I understand going crazy with drilling extra holes and all that, but bearing edges? C'mon. To not re-cut the bearing edges (if you can't get a good sound or decent tuning) just because it's vintage to me is sort of like saying: "No, I don't want that new furnace. I know the new furnace uses 70% less energy, burns much cleaner and is better for the environment, and heats the house 80% better, but I want to keep the old one because it's original. It came with the house".If you want to keep everything original no matter what, then fine. Put it in a glass case and never play them, just look at them like a painting or a museum piece. I subscribe to the theory that drums are meant to be PLAYED, and if re-cutting the bearing edges gives you a better sound while you are PLAYING them, then go for it. PLAY them and have fun with them while some of the other folks sit around and watch their precious, meticulously kept 100% originals collect dust because they are too afraid to play them! 99% of the time, I am filled with joy, peace, harmony and love when interacting with other friendly, knowledgeable and really great people here on VDF. The other 1% of the time is when I get a little frustrated about people telling other people what they can/can't or should/shouldn't do to THEIR own drums. When it comes to YOUR own drums, YOU should be able to do/buy/modify/play whatever YOU want. Just because you would never re-wrap drums, doesn't mean someone else can't re-wrap theirs if they want. Etc. Etc. Etc.Again, no offense meant to anyone, we all have our own opinons. I'm not right or wrong. It's an opinion I have.My three cents (inflation adjusted on the weaking dollar).V

Permanent alterations are for permanent owners. Sound is subjective so saying that recutting edges "improved" the sound won't mean much to the next set of ears. You're absolutely right that you can do whatever you want to do with your own drums, but if you alter them, then the only value in them will be to you. So, again, if your plans are to keep them forever, then no harm, no foul. But after you're dead and gone, they will just become one of "those" altered kits.

And I own many all-original, matched and unaltered kits that I have played over the years. None of them have ever been put under glass or collected dust. Like the people who owned the drums before me, I will maintain them responsibly.

"God is dead." -Nietzsche

"Nietzsche is dead." -God
Posted on 13 years ago
#22
Posts: 2212 Threads: 95
Loading...

This is that same old argument that happens here, and O-lugs is right, but the question was about the value of a kit with re-cut edges!

Posted on 13 years ago
#23
Loading...

From O-Lugs

Permanent alterations are for permanent owners. Sound is subjective so saying that recutting edges "improved" the sound won't mean much to the next set of ears. You're absolutely right that you can do whatever you want to do with your own drums, but if you alter them, then the only value in them will be to you. So, again, if you're plans are to keep them forever, then no harm, no foul. But after you're dead and gone, they will just become one of "those" altered kits.And I own many all-original, matched and unaltered kits that I have played over the years. None of them have ever been put under glass or collected dust. Like the people who owned the drums before me, I will maintain them responsibly.

Amen. A big plus one to that.

What Would You Do
Posted on 13 years ago
#24
Loading...

I agree that if your "vintage" kit is to be played and you can't achieve your desired sound due to poor edges, then by all means have them re-cut... by a professional who truly knows how to do this!

If it's a drum that has collectible value due to a certain era, finish or famous personality, then think twice before having any non-reversible work performed. It really does come down to the fact that it's your drum and can pretty much do with as you please.

I have a 70's Slingerland Deluxe Student snare drum, in Sparkling Blue Pearl, that was obviously built at 4:59pm on a Friday. The shell is not in-round and the depth varies more than I feel is acceptable. The worst bearing edges I've ever seen and the snare beds aren't even centered between the throw-off and butt! A wide tuning range? Forget about it!! Would re-cutting of the bearing edges and beds improve the sound? You betcha! But... I'm leaving this drum as-is, because it's a testament to how bad a drum can be built! Ahh... Slingerland quality at its finest!

As to the BDP Slingeland kit. It looks very clean and probably sounds pretty good, too. If the edges were properly cut, I don't see anything wrong with $500. But, it never hurts for some friendly haggling!

Just my opinion on all this!

Posted on 13 years ago
#25
Posts: 2713 Threads: 555
Loading...

Ray Ayotte tweeked/recut the bearing edges on my late 50's Gretsch kit. He was careful to (in his words) keep to the original intensions of the edges. Meaning he did not alter them from the original lines (each one of the four drums in my kit has a different edge). But, when I got them appraised by a well know vintage drum appraiser he did devalue them a little because of the 'tweeking' of the edges. So - in my experience - yes, it does alter the value of the original drum by doing anything to the edges.

Posted on 13 years ago
#26
Loading...

Thanks for all the feedback everyone!

I am asking more questions to the seller. It's over a 2 hr drive to go see them.

1960s Ralston (Star) set in Red Agate Pearl 12/12/16/20
1961 Ludwig Cocktail Lounge drum 24 x 16 in blue sparkle
1966 Ludwig Hollywoods in Sky Blue Pearl 12/13/16/22
1971 Ludwig Super Classics in Blue Sparkle 13/16/22
1976 Ludwig Vistalites in Blue 13/14/16/22
70s/80s Ludwig orphans in Black Cortex "Bonham" style 14/16/18/20/26 (B/O Badges)

Many snares
Posted on 13 years ago
#27
Loading...

From JRichard

Hobbs,There was a discussion here about a year ago about a Buddy Rich snare, the guy who owned it wanted to restore it. He was complaining about the inside of the shell and how it had a thick dark brown layer of shellac, he asked how best to get it off ...To make a long story short, I mentioned that Buddy usually did that to all his snares, "an unheard of amount of shellac" inside all or most of his snares. A few guys balked at that but JRFrondelli mentioned it to someone, I think it was Rob Cook, but I can't be sure, anyway it was verified about the shellac. Louie Bellson did it as well but not the the extreme that Buddy did. The shellac gave Buddy that trademark CRACK he got out of his snares.I don't remember if the guy striped the snare or not. If it was a REAL BR snare, his efforts to restore it to factory specs, devalued it.Someone I met at the CT Drum show last year, we had a talk about Joe Morello (he was supposed to do a clinic last year but he broke his hip, RIP Joe) Joe supposedly recut the snare beds on a few of his snares over the years.Some of this info is documented over the years, some of it's not. Guys modify their gear often to get the sound they're looking for. No two kits sound the same, so things get tweeked once in a while.

YOW!>>No,make that DOUBLE YOW!

Long ago,I bought a WMP wood Dyna from a guitar collector in Cali for $100 (!)..

When I got it,it had some type of brown shellac inside it..

That was right before the wood Dyna craze took off ..

I sold it right away to Kirk Higgins in AZ for the low price of $600 or 700,as it had the shellac inside!

Could it of been?...no...don't tell me..one of Buddy or Louie's Dynas?

I think I am going to be sick...

"Always make sure your front bottom BD lugs clear the ground!"
Posted on 13 years ago
#28
Loading...

Thanks for all the responses!!!

You guys are great! I have learned a lot since joining this forum!

1960s Ralston (Star) set in Red Agate Pearl 12/12/16/20
1961 Ludwig Cocktail Lounge drum 24 x 16 in blue sparkle
1966 Ludwig Hollywoods in Sky Blue Pearl 12/13/16/22
1971 Ludwig Super Classics in Blue Sparkle 13/16/22
1976 Ludwig Vistalites in Blue 13/14/16/22
70s/80s Ludwig orphans in Black Cortex "Bonham" style 14/16/18/20/26 (B/O Badges)

Many snares
Posted on 13 years ago
#29
Loading...

O/T: Yes, re-cut edges affect value. Edges shouldn't be messed with by just anyone, and the seller should be able to justify the modification if any value is sought in the improvements.

From tamadrm

Just for future reference.There is no such thing as "upgrading" vintage drums.If you have an all original vintage drum kit,it has to stay that way,to bring the highest resale value.If you have a vintage kit,and don't like the way it sounds,or you don't like the hardware......sell it.Don't alter a piece of history.Keep it as original as the day it left the factory....or its a player.Good luck.

Have to say I disagree somewhat here.

There is a time and a place, so to speak, for modifying vintage drums. I am of the opinion that if a drum is a collectable piece, original everything is important.If it's a vintage drum which you intend on playing, by all means - make it playable.

I'm not suggesting that anyone should 'molest' a drum, but rather restore it to playable condition. And yes, vintage drums do sound vintage. No point in cutting a modern edge over the original.

I use my set of Ludwig Standard drums for rehearsals, gigs, and recordings. Always housed in SKB hard cases (only the best!), and I've spent many hours restoring them. However, the bearing edges had seen some abuse, and were bringing the sound down considerably. I had them re-cut to the original Ludwig spec by a local professional, and they sound phenomenal.

I also installed wood hoops and claws. The old hoops were also bringing the sound quality down.

Now - they sound like amazing vintage drums.

I kept the original hoops.

Go ahead, crucify me. But as others have said, I intend on keeping these drums - and value to me isn't what a potential buyer would pay.

I guess the real point here is that a players kit can also be collectible. One man's trash...

Posted on 13 years ago
#30
  • Share
  • Report
Action Another action Something else here