Only Admins can see this message.
Data Transition still in progress. Some functionality may be limited until the process is complete.
Processing Attachment, Gallery - 183.37370%

do recut bearing edges affect value? Last viewed: 2 minutes ago

Loading...

From vyacheslav

I confess, I have had bearing edges re-cut on a Vintage kit. It is an MIJ Gracy (round badge copy). 3 ply with re-rings. I had all the bearing edges and snare beds re-cut professionally by Precision Drum Company in New York, who are some of the best (if not THE best) in the industry at bearing edges. They sound TONS better than they did before! I don't give two craps about re-sale value. It's my kit and it's fun to play! How much could I get for a third hand MIJ anyway, modification or not?No offense meant to anyone, but if the modification actually IMPROVES the sound or functionality of the drum, why not? I don't really get the whole "leave it alone because it's vintage" thing. Maybe if it's rare or really collectible (like original Vistalites, original Radio Kings etc.), then I can see that argument (remember mine is a $250 "players" MIJ, not an original Rogers Mardi Gras). But ultimatley, why would you NOT want the drums to sound better? I understand going crazy with drilling extra holes and all that, but bearing edges? C'mon. To not re-cut the bearing edges (if you can't get a good sound or decent tuning) just because it's vintage to me is sort of like saying: "No, I don't want that new furnace. I know the new furnace uses 70% less energy, burns much cleaner and is better for the environment, and heats the house 80% better, but I want to keep the old one because it's original. It came with the house".If you want to keep everything original no matter what, then fine. Put it in a glass case and never play them, just look at them like a painting or a museum piece. I subscribe to the theory that drums are meant to be PLAYED, and if re-cutting the bearing edges gives you a better sound while you are PLAYING them, then go for it. PLAY them and have fun with them while some of the other folks sit around and watch their precious, meticulously kept 100% originals collect dust because they are too afraid to play them! 99% of the time, I am filled with joy, peace, harmony and love when interacting with other friendly, knowledgeable and really great people here on VDF. The other 1% of the time is when I get a little frustrated about people telling other people what they can/can't or should/shouldn't do to THEIR own drums. When it comes to YOUR own drums, YOU should be able to do/buy/modify/play whatever YOU want. Just because you would never re-wrap drums, doesn't mean someone else can't re-wrap theirs if they want. Etc. Etc. Etc.Again, no offense meant to anyone, we all have our own opinons. I'm not right or wrong. It's an opinion I have.My three cents (inflation adjusted on the weaking dollar).V

I wholeheartedly agree!

I think you cover the nuances in a question like this very well. It is the same discussion, when we talk about rewrapping or altering hardware. Originality is fine, and important in some occasions. On other occasions, there are other priorities.

Altering an extremely rare, collectable drum would be quite foolish - but doing better bearing edges on a standard industrial product like a seventies Ludwig or Premier drum could very well be a good idea.

Not necessarily different, modern angles - as someone said, "if you want moderne edges, buy a modern drum" - just making them better, because a lot of those kits were built rapidly by ill-paid workers, sometimes with a hangover or what do I know.

I have had quite a few Premiers from the seventies - basically great drums, but not flat at all, and with very varying width of apex going round the shell.

I like the vintage sound - but I also like my drums to be tuneable, so I make sure they are flat, and then I resand the edges with the original profile. I like them looking vintage - but I want them to be usable, so I don´t mind changing pieces of hardware. I want them to be goodlooking, so I don´t mind rewrapping them, if the old wrap is cracked or if the kit is assembled from individual drums.

There are SO many of these kits, they are hardly collectable anyway, unless it is one of the few, very pristine examples that turns up from time to time. Leave them as they are, no reason to change them.

But my scratched, flaking, out-of-shape Premiers - I´ll try to make them as good as possible, original they aren´t anyway after 40 years on the road.

Regards

Jon

Posted on 13 years ago
#31
Loading...

From O-Lugs

Permanent alterations are for permanent owners. Sound is subjective so saying that recutting edges "improved" the sound won't mean much to the next set of ears. You're absolutely right that you can do whatever you want to do with your own drums, but if you alter them, then the only value in them will be to you.

Unless, of course, the next ears agrees with mine - that it really IS a better sounding drum now.

So, it could very well be that others will find the value of the drums to be higher after reworking by a craftsman.

Regards

Jon

Posted on 13 years ago
#32
Posts: 5176 Threads: 188
Loading...

Well, let me ask you....If you had the chance to own/drive a stock, all-original 1963 Corvette Stingray, would you put a new, electric engine in it? Would you repaint/reupholster it if you didn't like the color? Would you put a new suspension and power brakes on it to make it drive "better" and bring it up to modern standards?

Of course not.

But, it IS possible that someone would agree with that practice. There's always someone. However, the general consensus is that vintage drums that are no longer made and can no longer be duplicated shouldn't be messed with.

"God is dead." -Nietzsche

"Nietzsche is dead." -God
Posted on 13 years ago
#33
Loading...

According to the seller, it was done by a professional drum maker.

Thanks again for all the input!

1960s Ralston (Star) set in Red Agate Pearl 12/12/16/20
1961 Ludwig Cocktail Lounge drum 24 x 16 in blue sparkle
1966 Ludwig Hollywoods in Sky Blue Pearl 12/13/16/22
1971 Ludwig Super Classics in Blue Sparkle 13/16/22
1976 Ludwig Vistalites in Blue 13/14/16/22
70s/80s Ludwig orphans in Black Cortex "Bonham" style 14/16/18/20/26 (B/O Badges)

Many snares
Posted on 13 years ago
#34
Loading...

From O-Lugs

Well, let me ask you....If you had the chance to own/drive a stock, all-original 1963 Corvette Stingray, would you put a new, electric engine in it? Would you repaint/reupholster it if you didn't like the color? Would you put a new suspension and power brakes on it to make it drive "better" and bring it up to modern standards?Of course not.But, it IS possible that someone would agree with that practice. There's always someone. However, the general consensus is that vintage drums that are no longer made and can no longer be duplicated shouldn't be messed with.

Re the Vette....sad thing,but I'm sure it's been done!

"Always make sure your front bottom BD lugs clear the ground!"
Posted on 13 years ago
#35
Loading...

Again thanks for all the input.

I am going to pass - he's not flexible with his price. I'll save myself the 2 hr+ drive each way to check them out.

1960s Ralston (Star) set in Red Agate Pearl 12/12/16/20
1961 Ludwig Cocktail Lounge drum 24 x 16 in blue sparkle
1966 Ludwig Hollywoods in Sky Blue Pearl 12/13/16/22
1971 Ludwig Super Classics in Blue Sparkle 13/16/22
1976 Ludwig Vistalites in Blue 13/14/16/22
70s/80s Ludwig orphans in Black Cortex "Bonham" style 14/16/18/20/26 (B/O Badges)

Many snares
Posted on 13 years ago
#36
Loading...

From O-Lugs

Well, let me ask you....If you had the chance to own/drive a stock, all-original 1963 Corvette Stingray, would you put a new, electric engine in it? Would you repaint/reupholster it if you didn't like the color? Would you put a new suspension and power brakes on it to make it drive "better" and bring it up to modern standards?Of course not.But, it IS possible that someone would agree with that practice. There's always someone. However, the general consensus is that vintage drums that are no longer made and can no longer be duplicated shouldn't be messed with.

+1.John Aldridge also uses the antique car comparison when talking about vintage drums.How many cars from the 20's through the 60's were permenately altered to create "hot rods" ,especially in the 50's car building craze.So much so then now,genuine and original parts and original cars are extremely rare,which makes restoring cars from that era next to impossible.The result is that the few that are intact, are the only ones of accurate and historical significance.

Only in preserving our history,can we benefit from it later.Taste in looks and sound is transient.Customizing is for personal use;originality is valid for all time.Once you drill,or recut,there's no going back,and better sound ....is subjective.

If you like the vintage look and sound,but still want to "upgrade"a vintage drum,for whatever reason.then buy orphans,and already altered drums.Rewrap,recut,and retool till your hearts desired.But leave intact drum kits alone:2Cents

Thank god we all didn't mod all our vintage kits,or there wouldn't be any original and intact to debate this issue over...today.

Steve B

Posted on 13 years ago
#37
Loading...

Cars and drums....OK, I´ll try!

Well, I wouldn´t take a clean, nice, original standard sixties Corvette and put modern brakes in it - now. I probably wouldn´t drive it either...let it go to a museum, or stay in my garage. I could drive it to Pebble Beach once a year....

But - if I went through a lot of scrapheaps, gathering a frame here and an engine there, backaxle here I probably would install modern brakes - and tires and safetybelts. Why not make it better, when it won´t be original anyway, if it feels better to drive? It wouldn´t become a bleeding Hyundai anyway, would it?

And - if I was as good with cars, as I think I am with drums - I could make something beautiful and with a real vintage feel - but with modern safety equipment. Why not have the best possible? Then, I would be happy to drive it. (though I don t drive cars, only Bikes...)

You could ask - "Would you put a modern Ford engine in a Bugatti because it would be better"? Of course I wouldn´t. Like I wouldn´t sand the edges on a perfect 1923 Premier snare. I am not a fool.

But, let´s be real: Most of our drumkits are no Bugattis - or even Corvettes. Most are either semi-worn out standard products, that hasn´t been original for ages anyway - or are preserved in so many thousand examples, that we are not preserving for the future generations anyway. We are mending them to play them. And if it sounds better, I will use it. Original?

Yes, keep that NOS 1964 Supra in its cardboard box. Don´t take it up. It will lose its originality as the heads are being used and the snares elongate. Ruined for posterity, can´t be brought back, a shame. Keep it there, and take it up, wearing cotton gloves once a year, and show it to people that can use it as a template of originality.

But that ex-heavy metal band 1980 example - if someone feels like taking off the chrome and buff the alu - Good idea! Modern hi-end strainer? Brilliant! You want TWO dampers? Fine, bore them holes! It is only a thing, like a bread knife or a hammer or a bed!

There are thousands of them.

Rant over, I am out!

Jon

Posted on 13 years ago
#38
Posts: 2212 Threads: 95
Loading...

Hey man, play them, nothing wrong with that, just like the dude that drives his vintage car down to the car show every weekend. There are some real cool vintage cars that have been souped up and that is cool, but I would think that that is how it came! So if you want to alter some drums buy orphans and have at it! I think once you find that real nice , un-altered kit you will get the picture!

Posted on 13 years ago
#39
Loading...

Speaking as one who has taken this conversation to heart ... I put gasoline in my 1968 Slingerland Tom. It didn't improve the drum by hot ridding it. I'm not impressed with the direction this thread took me. I will think twice before listening to the opinions given here.

What Would You Do
Posted on 13 years ago
#40
  • Share
  • Report
Action Another action Something else here