I have owned Gretsch from various years since 1967. IMO, the RB still sound the best perhaps because of the bearing edges which changed around 1970. Some people think quality declined when Baldwin took over. I think many companies make fine snares but I have never heard another brand that made toms and kicks that have the projection, depth and penetrating sound that Gretsch has. I also have a USA custom kit but I don't think they wound as good as the old thin, Jasper shells.
Dave
This is not in response to ANY individual here. Its just a generalized comment.
It has always struck me funny the sheer amount of drummers that believe every shell made by Jasper Wood Products was the equivalent to a Gretsch layup. The word "Jasper" has crept into the consciousness as deep as the slogan "That Great Gretsch Sound". Interesting.
I don't believe Keller has suffered the same fate. In fact, it appears to have had an opposite effect. Keller makes so many shells for boutique and big name companies (and even private individuals) that the mystique has been diluted. The masses do not seem to be buying in to connection.
This stuff fascinates me. Marketing and the Human Conscious. What a fickle pair.
Rogersling-The Jasper thing is just like anything else that is extinct. It becomes more en vogue as a result. The truth is they made great shells for Gretsch and others. The drums I had were by far better sounding than any other I owned before or since. I had the Maple Customs and drummer friends used to gasp when I said I never cared for the sound of them. It is because I have Gretsch ingrained in my subconscious. When I hear my internal drum sound it is that kit tuned immaculately. If Keller were to suddenly go out of business they would become sought after too I am sure. They do make shells for everybody though and you are right. All this stuff is subjective. I am sure there is a guy out there who had a bad experience with a Jasper kit. It all depends on what you like. Once you find what you like it is very hard to deviate from that unless you are changing to something clearly better. There is different out there for sure but I don't know if there is really a better than Gretsch or Jasper. Sonor and DW make great sounding drums. Yamaha makes fine drums. Pearl and Tama, same thing. There are just no more Jaspers and when the supply is limited the demand goes up and people tend to remember only the good things as time passes. That is human nature.
I would surmise what gets made by the manufacturer for public consumption can be and probably is totally different than what is spec'd by a particular manufacturer. I could probably have a proprietary layup of birch, basswood, fibreglass, carbon fibre, maple, and paolina with a paper core made if my pockets were deep enough. Would it necessarily mean that Jasper or Keller made the same shells for me as, say the New Drums Company's (fictional name) birch, basswood, fibreglass, carbon fibre, maple and paolina with a paper core shells? Probably not.
It's all down to what you spec. While (for example) Gretsch and OCDP could have their shells made in the same factory, there is a probability that the shells are totally different from each other AND what the factory sells to the public. In the bicycle business, designs get ripped off all of the time; but usually what's underneath the clearcoat and paint is totally different than the high-dollar manufacturer's bike frame, even if it came from the same mould.
I think Fibes Jasper drums are GREAT sounding drums.
Rogersling-The Jasper thing is just like anything else that is extinct. It becomes more en vogue as a result. The truth is they made great shells for Gretsch and others. The drums I had were by far better sounding than any other I owned before or since. I had the Maple Customs and drummer friends used to gasp when I said I never cared for the sound of them. It is because I have Gretsch ingrained in my subconscious. When I hear my internal drum sound it is that kit tuned immaculately. If Keller were to suddenly go out of business they would become sought after too I am sure. They do make shells for everybody though and you are right. All this stuff is subjective. I am sure there is a guy out there who had a bad experience with a Jasper kit. It all depends on what you like. Once you find what you like it is very hard to deviate from that unless you are changing to something clearly better. There is different out there for sure but I don't know if there is really a better than Gretsch or Jasper. Sonor and DW make great sounding drums. Yamaha makes fine drums. Pearl and Tama, same thing. There are just no more Jaspers and when the supply is limited the demand goes up and people tend to remember only the good things as time passes. That is human nature.
Totally way over rated and too ringy, I never liked the sound of Gretsch drums, so I must be the guy...That combined with the worst hardware the industry ever produced made me swear I'd never again own anything Gretsch.
I must be the only one in the vintage community that likes Camco, WFL and Slingerland Mahogany 3ply, and late 60s Roger's over anything Gretsch.
I must be the only one in the vintage community that likes Camco, WFL and Slingerland Mahogany 3ply, and late 60s Roger's over anything Gretsch.
I wouldn't go that far..Check the responses on the "Which would You Rather Play?" topic: http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/showthread.php?t=15011
You have several who agree. Ludwig is the most preferred, and I would guess some are WFL players (WFL have a very nice shell compared to the later high-production Ludwigs after-Ringo) and Slingerland also has more votes than Gretch for that poll, although Rogers is inched out.
It all just goes to personal preference. I said in my first reponse on this thread that Gretsch had garbage hardware. Ludwig and Slingerland made garbage hardware too. It took Japanese to make good hardware and everyone else finally came around. Irregardless of how you feel, many people feel the same way I do. Many also feel the same way you do. I have played some crappy Ludwigs before. I have owned a crappy Slingerland set before that would not tune. It was a WMP kit from the 70's. When you went to replace a head the bearing edge is all wavy like a roller coaster on some Ludwigs a friend had. I do also own some great Ludwigs from 1966. It depends on your preference. I like ringy drums and I like resonance. Ringy is all in how you tune the drums. My Ludwigs sound great. My Gretsch sound great too. It isn't an us vs. them thing. It's like art. It's just what you like. Ludwig is the most preferred here and probably in the collecting field but I know a lot of guys who swear by Gretsch and other brands. As long as there is a choice there will always be an argument as to what is best. Best is like perfect. It doesn't really exist. They all have flaws man.
Time frame? I guess mid 70's when Tama and Yamaha started making hardware more dependable. Slingerland, Ludwig, and Gretsch always pretty much had the spade tom holder and then the L-rod. That stuff while functional is still very chincy overall. By hardware I mean cymbal holders, cymbal stands, snare stands, and pedals. I used to have a Rogers hi-hat pedal that was nice. Same with Ludwig. I still have a mint Ludwig in my trap case from my 1966 kit. Camco and Rogers were the first American companies if I remember correctly that took hardware in the right direction. Gretsch had the floating action pedal which was either a copy of the Camco design or the precursor to it. (That I am not sure of.) Tama and Yamaha just made hardware road-worthy. Sonor too. Ludwig came out with their tubular stuff which was okay but still had the L-rod. Slingerland was the same way too. Gretsch always made awful stuff except for their die-cast hoops, pedals, and their lugs. Ludwig made the Speed King pedal. The bass drum pedal they made that came with the Standard line along with the hi-hat pedal was a joke. Look, I guess I am spoiled by the Yamaha stuff. It always works, is quiet, and isn't all pitted. I live in Florida where we have constant 95% humidity so the old chrome doesn't do it for me on those stands. Look man, I don't have all the answers. You don't either. All I said was that Gretsch made garbage hardware and so did the other companies that you like better. It's true. The flat stands were not very stable with heavier rides. The bass drum cymbal holder, while they look cool, were not that stable. I know because I have one on my RB Gretsch kit. I never had any confidence in it so I used to mount a splash on it. I love vintage stuff as much as anyone and the drums were fantastic. The hardware, not so much.
