So, was the Duplex brand owned by Grossman like Rogers was or did they just distribute Duplex? If my floor tom and John's kit are Duplex did Rogers (Grossman) make them? Because my floor tom IS a Rogers drum with different lugs. Look at John's pictures, those ARE Rogers.

After pulling the head from the cast b+b Luxor I have it looks to be the same shell too. Down to the line in the re rings. The shame about the cast b+b lugs and different variations that lead us up to the beavertail is that the employees I've interviewed do not remember this transition. When the people that were there at the time do not recall or have passed we loose this detail and left to guess from the other hardware charateristics also found on the drums. Also no old paper found at this time to show them in print with a date. So much time has passed that hardware could of been changed over the years too. Since only a few bass drums, toms and snares have these lugs I am leaning toward the 1963 lug change...but why no Swivo hardware?! Flat grey paint and tall hoops point to 1963.

To flip the coin and argue the other side there must have been a few different designs for the later 60s (1967)Duplex used/r-360 lug design that was mass produced with those 3 lines in them. Also the shells on Duplex were speckled grey. Keep on guessin! All fun and you have a great sounding Rogers set to record with. Thanks for sharing it, Gary

As I am checking I see your next post. Duplex was Grossmans line, like the early 50s Champion, that allowed him to offer quality drums after selling the Rogers name and designs to CBS in 1966. The sharing of the r-360/Duplex lug design was in the deal. That lug has Mr. Thompsons name on the patent as well. So...yes Duplex drums were Grossman Music =Cleveland, OH assembled. Dixie was offered by Grossman in 68 but imported.

I only removed one lug in order to inspect. With that said, you can tell that these have been on for years. The screws have no sign of screw driver application and when pulling that one lug off, it had that sorta stick to it. Last, the finish under the lug is a lighter color in the shape of the lug. I assume these have been on from the start. Again, I am not an expert which is why I am looking to you all. :-) I am a player, so against some advice I am playing these live and in the studio. I wouldn't tour with them, but then again Charlie Watts has been using that Gretsch for years.... Thanks everyone! Oh, anyone find a matching floor or snare hit me up!

John

Some more shots....we love them pics right?

*Take note of my wonderful 1.5 year old sons art work on the batter heard with black crayon. That too is one of a kindbaby crawl2b

ahhhhh that raised cup internal muffler on 13" tom makes me think later than 1963. 13/22/16 same as the other set with those lugs are very b+b era sizes. Ryans matching wmp snare with those lugs has tall stick chopper Rogers early 60s tall hoops. Also no doubt that the lugs when pulled were original to that shell. Still makes me think Rogers. That I like! As Mr. Perdue put it parts is parts. That crayon is precious art like the drums the head is on. Enjoy that OH tone. Early 1960s or later 1960s, Covington or Cleveland, prime shells built by folk that cared.

It took me years to find the old early 1950s Rogers paper to see some drums that I've held for years. That's why I like trying to figure this stuff out. Sometimes the drums come first and later the paper to date and explain it. Sometimes the paper I saw made me want to find that drum example in print. Still looking for the war time WW2 wood lug snare drum in an old ad. Might not of ever been advertised.

The lipped b+b cast lug wasn't advertised in a catalog or new and improved lug design but every early Dynasonic ad shows that same lip around the edge in the artists drawing of that drum. One must of been made with those lugs for the artist to see and draw it. Or maybe it was like the large drum over the building in Covington. Artistic touch! Peace, Gary

Wow,O.M.G. a rare set the only other complete one i have seen in 30+ year's is the one i have..Alittle about my set,it's in Gold sparkle with the white backing date's it to the mid 60's.Set size's is 14x22 bass,9x13 tom 16x16 floor tom,5x14 snare that matches the set..here is a few thing's also on my set, the bass drum and snare shell's have no paper lable and never had any but the floor tom and mounted tom had a paper lable but was removed when the drum's were made..all drum's are flat gary paint inside.All drum's have the same screw//washer set up like your set.All drum's have the same air-vint and look's just like the photo that you posted.All drum's have the same lug's..A few thing's dont match your set.On your bass drum it show's one W&A "L-arm" cymbal mount,the bass drum i have have two cymbal mount's like Buddy Rich had on his set..The tom mount is the same.Also on my floor tom i have Duplex leg's and mount's your's have Roger's...i can go on and on about this set, i will post more later...Mikey

Mine DOES have two mounts, just aren't both pictured. I wouldn't mind the arms, another floor, and matching snare for this. I love the mystery, but love the sound even more. Thanks guys for the info. Maybe time to look for those extras in the for sale section.

The arm's on my set are Roger's but the mount's on the bass drum are W&A one's...Mikey

My apologies re: photo sizes

Quick question.... Now I am questioning myself! Should I gig with these drums? What do you all think? Vintage is one thing, rare and vintage another. Just listening to the last studio takes with them and am just blown away.

John