Those aren't drums, only talking drums! and still I stand by my original statement, if you can't document their providence they don't sell well!

Musical instruments of that period have a definite collector interest.

Either dated or by manufacturer.

The fifes were not regiment marked nor were the horns.

I would not dismiss a legitimate period drum for that reason alone.

A specifically regimental marked Civil War drum might make the more modern collectable vintage drums look inexpensive

There is a whole different Civil War collecting community that "might" see this subject differently.

David

David, growing tired of this! once again, without proof of the drums real historical Involvement there is very small value in them, I speak of this with experience, and I just did an ebay search, there are two drums, and no bids on either one! and yet look at thumb screw drums they sell very well and at high prices! and just to clarify, I'm not saying they aren't valuable as a animate object, just not resale price wise without proof of historical significance! then they are valuable!

vintagemore2000

ebay is not were this collectable stuff is offered

If you use ebay to always judge value...you may be using a one trick pony.

Much good stuff would never get posted on ebay.

He are a few examples of these Civil War drums…either sold or currently being offered for sale. (Click on the links.)

Photo #1 – Nice provenance- final auction price $9,200

http://www.cowanauctions.com/upcoming_dates_view_item.asp?ItemId=73396

Photo # 2 currently being offered for sale. $4,000 (No provenance)

http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/admin/product_details.php?itemID=2950

No photo attached - currently being offered for sale $8,750 (No provenance)

http://www.jsmosby.com/cgi-bin/display_items.asp?cat=6&sub=29

David

tell you what good luck on your sale of a rope drum without any historical significance!! you'll get pettily money for it! I've been down this road, read my responses to you, the Smithsonian Institute is my reference is that good enough for you! I used ebay as an example only, here is a real documented civil war drum, and this or a museum is where they end up at! http://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/object.cfm?key=35&objkey=64 and this is only one example read the entire text!!

There are definite differences between Civil War items and more-current vintage drum items. The utility value of most vintage drums that we talk about on this forum is close to or at the same level as a new drum would be. That alone sets them apart from the Civil war stuff you're talking about. Accessories are definitely part of the value equation but there are no hard and fast rules. A pristine museum time capsule set of Ludwig Classics from the 60s, with original stands and cymbals and throne, obviously is going to get much more attention from the collecting public, and a Black Oyster original Ringo kit even more. Then an artists actual set would be even more valuable. No telling how much one of Ringo's sets would go for, possibly a cool mil$.

However the utility value of the drums themselves are such that without stands, the drums still have a good amount of value as player's vintage drums.

So the value equation has to take into account several factors: 1)simple desirability of the drums; 2)utility value of the drums 3)historical or pop culture value; 4)originality.

These all have an effect on value. The drum collecting thing is relatively new, so you would need to define "purist" and even after you did that, the purist's preferences may not hold nearly as much weight regarding value as does a purist in the Civil War memorabilia, Antiques, Art, or even vintage guitars world.

Drums purchased in the last 50 or more years are almost all subject to available options from the factory, so a person did not even have to buy the stands with the drums, or could choose a different size configuration than was suggested in the catalogs. Not to mention cymbals, which were made by other companies then added as a catalog item in the various drum companies' catalogs.

The person that bought the 1958 Gretsch drums I now own bought them from a local music store new in 1961. He bought Ludwig hardware for the drums at that time or soon after (WFL/Walberg&Auge HiHat, WFL SpeedKing pedal & Ludwig model 1121 cymbal stand).

So as far as my drums go...in my eyes anyway....the Ludwig gear with my Gretsch drums are just as Vintage & valuable as the drums themselves. They go together as a kit....from that time/era.

There you have the music store tie-in, and that is a legitimate originality aspect. Then you have all sorts of certain hardware items that have collectible value starting with snare drums, Ringo 1123 hihat stand, worth a couple hundred versus the more plentiful later spurlock stands, that are worth maybe $30-$50.. Originality is somewhat variable when you consider the drum "set" was purchased itemized individually. The main place originality comes into play is indeed the bass and toms, serials close, and lack or presence of re-wrap, additional holes drilled, etc. otherwise originality pertains to the individual drum item, and lack of originality of that item will negatively affect the value of the overall drum set.

If Kona's '58 Gretsch set has a receipt detailing the various items, then it could be worth MORE than a completely brand-correct set without a receipt or a story behind it. Obviously a person who owns them values them greatly, but I agree with you about the set being worth more with the Ludwig flat-base stands, etc. because you got them from the original owner and there's a degree of providence there. So the individual perception creates the value.

A Civil war era drum may have little value to a person who is interested in newer drums for playing at a gig or recording; so obviously value is subjective. Where it becomes objective is when collectors shell out money and the transaction is documented, whether it be an individual, ebay, business or an antiques auction or storehouse. Usually an average of several sales is tallied when the "price guide" people put together a value list.

Thanks O-Lugs, vintagemore2000, Pounder, and Kona for the interesting collection of thoughts relating to the subject of this thread.

I personally have a better understanding of how this element of vintage drum collecting is currently viewed as far as accessories are concerned….as well as the mix and match of different components that fit within the collecting parameters that are viewed as acceptable.

As Pounder suggested, vintage drum collecting is relatively new and I am sure it will evolve over time…with lots of new thoughts.

Vintagemore2000 as to your comments regarding Civil War drums and their provenance affecting their collector desirability and value, the link below is an example of your point.

HOWEVER….I would be hesitant to use eBay as a measure of the value and collector appetite for this stuff.

I doubt the good pieces ever find their way to eBay…it is a different collecting crowd, and the upscale Civil War dealers or auction houses will generally market the good collectable drums.

I recently posted some additional photos of Civil War drums for sale earlier in this thread that do not have provenance…the asking prices are interesting.--#14.

These early drums may be a measure of where drum collecting values are headed???

Albeit,… with a different history.

It will be interesting to see where the values of collectable drums move in the future…..for good original stuff….I suspect steadily upward.

David

Photo #1 Cowan Auctions---sale price $9,200.

http://www.cowanauctions.com/upcoming_dates_view_item.asp?ItemId=73396

Photos 2-5 Currently being offered by a high end Civil War dealer.

OUTSTANDING AND RARE, CONFEDERATE-USED, FEDERAL EAGLE DRUM WITH UNQUESTIONABLY AUTHENTIC ALTERATION DENOTING CONFEDERATE USE….Price- $12,750

I tend to agree with you, David, about the value of civil war collectibles. It's another one of those "cross collectible" categories. We can comment on the "drummerly" aspects of the instruments, but many people are interested in only the historical aspects of such vintage items. So, the purely drum-interested collectors have a whole other world of "competition" when it comes to what something might sell for at auction. I suspect that even without provenance, a really old drum with a painted eagle logo and riveted seams and old leather ear fobs and hemp rope, will sell for quite a bit of money to, say, a retired history professor who specialized in the Civil War. Or, maybe it would go to a war museum....etc.

If a drum makes it to the sales table of an upscale auction house, then chances are pretty good that someone will buy it for a lot of money. Such is the way of upscale auction houses! lol! It's the difference between getting a cheeseburger at the Four Seasons and getting one from the drive thru ay McDonald's! Whether it's "better" or not....who's to say? But one is going to sell for more money simply because of WHERE it's being sold. "It must be good because it sold here to that lady with the big floppy hat and aviator sunglasses holding the little Yorkie." :D

And, David, I'm also with your point about vintage drum collecting being a relatively young. So, yes, I think that many vintage drums and sets will continue to grow in value. I'm hoping that we see something similar to what happened with guitars from those same eras!

Good topic and good, interesting comments from everyone. Awesome!