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Where do accessories fit-- in establishing the value of vintage drums? Last viewed: 4 hours ago

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Somewhat off topic...but I thought I would add it.

(For they that may be interested....as this is a "vintage" drum forum.)

It appears that modern drummers have an easier gig than some of our earlier drumming predecessors.

Civil War musicians often carried the Model 1840 Musician sword…how would you like to wear that to a gig?

They got shot at and often killed…they were stretcher bearers and often assisted with amputations in picking up “surplus” limbs.

I don’t collect Civil War drums, but I have a couple of Model 1840 Musician’s swords (1863 and 1864 dated) and a U.S. 1860 marked fife that accompanied the drummers. (I doubt if these really qualify as "accessories.")

Photos # 1 and #2.

The Civil War Drummer (Article)

by R.C. Murphy

When most people think of the Civil War, they think of famous generals or battles fought or how politics entered into an Army operation. But when I think of the War Between the States, I think of quite possibly the most important member of either side--that is the drummer.

When the Federal Government needed troops to answer the call, be it North or South, those troops never left home without a drummer as an integral part of the unit. Usually they were boys too young to do the actual fighting but who knew the importance of a good drummer. What a thrill it must have been for a small boy, who had probably never been further than a few miles from his town, to march off to war with a company or regiment of home folk. I think it would be hard for any of us in this day and age to imagine a boy joining a fighting unit and going off to war. But almost every city, town, hamlet or village that sent troops to war, had one or more of these brave young native sons.

Much is written about the weapons and strategies of war but little is said about the importance of the drummer. It’s often thought that a drummers' only task was to beat cadence for his unit while marching. That was only a small part of a day in the life of a young drummer.

Without a drummer to establish communications and keep order among the units in the field, many campaigns would have ended in failure. The drummer had many responsibilities; including using one of many drum calls for everything from assembling officers for strategy meetings to sounding retreat in the midst of severe enemy fire. A drummer could always be seen near a high ranking officer because at any time he might be needed to alert the troops of an upcoming movement or operations.

Because of his job as the communicator for the unit, he often did not get enough sleep. At any time he might be needed to play the appropriate drum call. This meant being awakened at any hour and not being able to return to sleep for many hours. Once the men were assembled and deployed to a particular engagement, the drummers would lay down their drums and take up stretchers, act as runners between outposts, or do whatever was necessary to help the unit. Many tales of heroism have been told about these young lads, and many lived to ripe old ages to tell generations of their contributions to the war effort.

David

No need to worry about accessories here....some of these guys look like they are having fun.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXGDv5INB-4&feature=related[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8p6hNMcEyc&feature=related[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPm8uY4SEto&feature=related[/ame]

Posted on 14 years ago
#21
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When did the classical left stick holding technique get changed to overhand by some guys...and why?

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CujyFrnsmGs&feature=related[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yNb-kUPwMI[/ame]

Perhaps it was the change in the music and the expansion of the drum kit?

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oS9Id8UTwyQ&feature=fvst[/ame]

David

Posted on 14 years ago
#22
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there are video's of Art Blakey, Gene Krupa, and Buddy rich, and elvin Jones and others using the match grip method!

Your drummers not much good is he!? What you need is someone that's as good as me. ! John Henry Bonham !!
Posted on 14 years ago
#23
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From drm2m

When did the classical left stick holding technique get changed to overhand by some guys...and why?David

Have a look at the old marching snare drums... they were off to the side... with the single rope sling... not dead-ahead of the player...

Now look at the tympani... although played with mallets, the german tympani grip is the double overhand "matched grip"......

For the trap set, where everything is placed all over.... some players found the tymani grip just worked better for them...

It used to be "crude" to use it... now it's widely accepted.

Posted on 14 years ago
#24
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vexorgtr,

Years ago back in the 60s when I played in a concert band it was very apparent that the Timpani drums were played with the over hand technique.

It made sense to me at the time by virtue of the mallets that were used to play these drums...the players were also standing upright in front of the drums as you suggest....as opposed to a sit down drum kit....also because of the charts written for the Timpini, lots of rolls and fairly straight forward stuff.

vintagemore2000,

I see more older drummers playing the classical style than otherwise...perhaps there were some tunes that suggested that the matched grip method was more appropriate...I am sure I don't know?

David

Posted on 14 years ago
#25
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My point simple is it's been around since the trap drumset has existed!! here's one example! [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vA5dt9QT4Ms[/ame]

Your drummers not much good is he!? What you need is someone that's as good as me. ! John Henry Bonham !!
Posted on 14 years ago
#26
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A mix of both styles vintagemore2000.

First classical ....the rest mixed....

I guess the mix has been around for a long time.

HOWEVER...when they are not soloing and are backing the band... I'll bet it is the classical style.

Backing the group and the solo drummer are perhaps two different stories.

Which leads into a totally different subject....good drummers that solo...and good drummers that just push the hell out of a band without the flash.....and make the band "cook".

Perhaps a different subject?

(I like the thought of a rhythm section -drums, bass, guitar, keyboards working as a cohesive unit that really kicks the band....and gives shivers to a vocalist and a horn section.)

David

Posted on 14 years ago
#27
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David another example of match grip by a jazz Giant Max Roach. [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-y8Il-yRz_A&feature=related[/ame] also traditional grip came from the marching field, and since the Instructors of the day came from that field that's what they taught to their students,Leedy ludwig.slingerland,gretsch, rogers, all had large amounts of study to the field drummer and how to forum and maintain a drum and Bugle corps. David Can I ask a few back ground questions of you?, I Myself have been playing drums almost my entire life and was in the marching band for 6 years in Jr High and High School, I am a drummer,collector, and Historian, David have you Been playing very long? also are you just now learning the History of the Instrument, the reason I ask this is because, this is the second very heavily discussed topic about drums, the first was the Ludalloy thread, which to many of us on this and other forums has been discussed to the ends of the earth?

Your drummers not much good is he!? What you need is someone that's as good as me. ! John Henry Bonham !!
Posted on 14 years ago
#28
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As we all well know participation in the threads is strictly voluntary regardless of the how well beaten (discussed) one thinks the dead horse (topic) is.

Me, I'm extremely data driven and look to these venues either to impart or gather empirical (preferred) and theoretical information (and I have yet to find the great single source or repository of knowledge). I also enjoy reading the opinions of others which is the main reason I even to show up here, and if I choose to jump into the fray ever the more better. I think this should be expected as people drift in and out trying to search for a good source of data or stimulating conversation.

EDIT:

I for the life of don't get the "tradtional" grip one bit, especially Buddy's comment on it. I have a friend that swears the left hand is more "sensitive" when the stick is placed perpendicular to the forearm in the traditional grip rather than parallel to the forearm in match grip. I love to kid him responding that if its so "sensitive," which must be better, why doesn't he play both hands in the same fashion!

It is interesting to me that the placment of the drums is rather odd and stuck in some sort of time warp especially when viewed from an ergonomic standpoint. Arguably the highhat is the most struck/played instrument a drummer has (at least in the context of a song) but look how it was placed and played. Why "open hand" playing didn't catch on over "crossed hand" is beyond me and with the advent of cable HH stands I see very few people taking advantage of the opportunity to evolve.

Posted on 14 years ago
#29
Posts: 5176 Threads: 188
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Did you know that the old version of the traditional grip was actually more like a grip that you would use to hold a shovel handle or something like that? Seriously!

"God is dead." -Nietzsche

"Nietzsche is dead." -God
Posted on 14 years ago
#30
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