"so fervently advocated by sociologists and their alien ilk"

I don't think we can really blame the sociologists. First, it they're truly sociologists they shouldn't be preaching, just observing, recording, analyzing and correlating. And second the media began portraying or even glamorizing single parenthood as early as Murphy Brown, not to mention The Courtship of Eddies Father. Who by the way was not a vintage drummer, just to keep it remotely on topic.

I'd like to see someone do a study on drummers, particularly players/collectors of vintage drums. I think we are an odd breed, unlike any other type of musician.

I know a couple of sociologists who did a study on Elvis impersonators

and for the record, I still believe we can and should come to an agreed upon definition (for our purposes) of vintage.

to all the people who disagree ...

so stop refuting and offering your opinion and let it be. i don't have a problem with my definition. it serves me well. you seem to take issue with it. maybe the issue here ... the reason this freekin' topic has continued unabated ... is your own inability to either ;

1) agree

2) agree to disagree

3) deal maturely with the fact that not everyone sees the world through your eyes

pick one. they all fit.

... but my favorite is still "agree to disagree". try it.

I think you’re right, even though I don't agree with you, and I absolutely love your earlier statement that 'we will never get a group of unpaid musicians to agree on anything'; I found that absolutely and irrevocably undeniable, so we are now two... how many make a group? Just for the record, would you encapsulate your take on the term ‘Vintage’ for me please; I am certain it will be in this thread somewhere, but I would appreciate your concise definition as you have a particularly robust opinion which I am certain will be based, given your experience and track record, on good solid reasons.

Ouch!

Thanks for the smackdown,

Thought this was the place for the open expression of ideas.

My mistake.

sorry!

it's all about the cat. that's where it originates and where it gains momentum. it really has nothing to do with my years behind the kit. it's all about the cat. the cat, baby.

Dude, I think you've got me mixed up with some other cat.

I was under the impression that this forum was a good place to ask questions and offer opinions and seek the opinions and advice of others. I posed the question originally because it seemed to make sense that a forum called "vintage drum forum" might have some explanation of the term vintage.

I really was just looking for clarification because the term is used so many ways to refer to so many things. Not trying to cause friction. I thought if I could understand what is meant by vintage, I would know what questions/posts would be appropriate for this forum. What better place to ask than here with so many knowledgeable Old drummers.

I think I'm not alone here or this topic/question wouldn't come up on this forum every few weeks in one form or another.

Lot's of organizations, and associations, with unpaid members come to some sort of consensus on terminology.

I don't think I've offered a definition, because I really don't have one. I'm still exploring, and getting other peoples thoughts. That's why I can't agree or disagree yet.

I never said I had an issue with your definition either. It's been interesting to see how many different takes there are on the term.

I really don't know where I stand. I'm trying to see what the majority, or a large number of members of this and some other forums, as well as some of my friends and fellow musicians say.

I have a lot of respect for your opinion on this matter. Clearly you have a wealth of knowledge and expertise on the topic. Your definition has helped to shape my understanding of the term. As always I appreciate your input and the fact that you often comment and add in depth commentary.

I'm really glad we don't all see the world the same way, it would be a much more boring place to live.

Thanks again for your input, I really like the forum, and appreciate the opinions of VDF members.

that wasn't directed at you, per se. it was a shot over the bow to those that continue to refine a strict meaning of this word. it means something just a little bit different to each of us and is at the very heart of why we're even members on this forum. why is that so wrong? my take on it is very different from ludwig-dudes, but he's one of my friends on here. i deeply respect the man. why would i condone something here that puts us (and many others) at odds? there is no reasonable explanation. we toss this around every now and again as polite banter. it's healthy and fun. no lines get crossed. respect and understanding are absolutes. i've learned more from luddydude, o-lugs, vm2k, kevins, tommy, and too many others to name. the one thing we all understand is we love VINTAGE drums ... and yet, we all have different understandings of that word. imagine that. we can all continue to have fun and grow as friends and yet we see the very core of this differently.

but, when someone here takes it up like a cross and attempts to put finality on something so special to us, ... well, it rubs me wrong. let it be.

"when someone here takes it up like a cross and attempts to put finality on something so special to us, ... well, it rubs me wrong. "

I got that!

Im a work in progress. As such still working out what I consider to be vintage, and would still love to hear opinions from anyone who has one.

Thanks

i

no sweat. there are oodles of threads that address this very topic. we love bantering this about. great stuff. we all offer up and enjoy looking at it from the different facets. seriously healthy. there was some pretty good stuff here, too. every 100 drummers should yield approximately 97 differing takes. and ain't that cool! man, i love the diversity. that's why i love slingerland and this other guy loves gretsch and that girl digs ludwig and that dude over there holds mij's in high regard. you get the point.

you will develop your own take, if you haven't already, and it will most likely change and grow and morph with every major bit of education you allow yourself to be receptive to ... at least, i've found that true for my own self.

I've finally got my answer!

Well I asked this questions because I thought it would be a good idea to understand what we are talking about here.

So my understanding is this:

Vintage and collectable are completely different terms.

Vintage may be used for marketing purposes and not fall under any of these definitions but simply be used to get attention and sell stuff.

VINTAGE drums are any one of the following or some combination.

-drums which are older than 20 years, or older than 25 years (moving target)

-drums which are made during or before the early 1980's

-drums made before 1980

-drums which are made before the late 1970's

-drums made before 1975

-drums which are made between the late 1950's and the late 1970's

-drums made between the 1950's and the late 1960's

-drums made between 1930-1959, includes Premier, Sonor, etc.

the following may be combined with any of the above

-drums made in the US only during any of the above periods

-drums made in the US or Europe during any of the above periods

-drums made only by certain manufacturers

-drums which were made using certain manufacturing techniques

-drums of a certain maturity and quality and appeal

or:

-drums which you played when you were young

or simply:

-whatever the hell you want them to be!!!!!!

So who wants to talk about my "vintage" Grestch Catalina Club kit!!!!!