So this year sets made before '88 are vintage according to your definition. Then next year it's 89, etc.? Is that correct? And it changes every year? Is that what you are saying is your definition of vintage?

I just want to say that I'm completely behind you driving this question. I have read the posts from those trying to head you off this question and I don't really agree with what I've read from them. Despite the wealth of previous threads pertaining to this topic, this is a debate we need to at least underpin the essence of the meaning, even if it's to help those who are newer to all this.

One other thing, if Vintage means old then maybe 25 years is a bit lean? A drum that young is just secondhand!

Yes Madrummer. This not my calculations but system that has been used to calculate vintage . Here is a write up by Ned Ingberman of Vintage drum center on how they calculates Ludwig vintage drums, very much to what I am saying. http://www.vintagedrum.com/ludwig_serials.htm

geckobeats

25 years has been used for many years as a base line. Take a for example cars, after 25 years you can get antique plates and your insurance drops down to about $250. for a full cover, figer that one out. hahaha

Yeah here in the UK you stop paying what we call Road Tax and get cheaper Classic Car insurance.

I accept what you say that 25 yrs has been for a long time the bench mark and that is indeed a parameter that we can all agree. Voila!! There is a definition defined! Hehe.

Mcdrummer take note.

Ok It doesn't matter about cars or furniture or wine or anything other than drums. This is the "vintage drum forum", the question we are attempting to answer is "what exactly is the criteria that makes a drum vintage".

As far as the link that you post I don't really see any reference to 25 years. (if I missed it please just quote it here) I personally am fine with 25 years. I don't have a dog in this fight. My goal would be to have a mutually agreed upon definition of vintage. 25 is fine but only some people agree with you.

We, the members, contributing members, advanced members, guru's and senior members or moderators can and I believe should determine what we mean by vintage.

If I said my drum is Mint condition and you came to see it and it had scratches and rust, and when you asked I said well, that's MY definition of Mint? Would that work?

WE need a definition of Vintage!

I think we have answered Your question scientifically and analytically it seems you are bent in being problematic.

Again here is the definition and final response I do not condone ignorance.

''The term vintage refers to a particular span of time. Collectibles are items deemed worthy of collecting because of their history, manufacturing process or for personal or nostalgic reasons. Vintage items that are 100 years old or less. Items older than 100 years are referred to as antiques.''

First let me say that I am sincere and I am really not trying to be argumentative here. I am not pushing this issue just for kicks. I believe we resolve a lot of disputes by having agreed upon definitions. So I would like to see an "officially" and I use that term lightly, approved definition.

This way when someone gets on this forum and says "Is my kit vintage?" we can just say Bam! here's our explanation of vintage.

Just because you cut and paste something from ehow doesn't mean that's the official definition. In fact you will find this discussion on other forums pertaining to other collectables. And you will find just as many definitions.

Just because you have a belief doesn't make it a reality. I actually had come to the conclusion that there could never be an agreed definition. and was really ready to drop it. But I talk about drums, old drums, new drums, all the time and I have the biggest collection of drums in the world and if there is a value to a drum being vintage then it will impact me financially and move over Bill Gates!!!!!Excited

I do find myself answering that question all the time. "What is Vintage" and I thought when I joined this forum there would be a definition, so I naively asked that question and got 143 different answers!

By the way I am ignorant, of so many things, just trying to shorten that list.

I'm starting to get the feeling that the word Vintage really only means gracefully old.

You can love or loathe any percussion instrument from any manufacturer from any period in time from anywhere in the world, put that at 25-30 years in time and bang you have vintage.

You can fall in love with and decide to collect any percussive instrument type from a particular maker from any period including today if you want. You like the new stuff from Craviotto or the Vintage stuff from Gretsch it's up to you.

CB kits can become vintage too. Clubdates, Acrolites, Slingerland Student snares, Premier Olympic's, Beverly cosmic 21's were all aimed at lower markets but are now Vintage because they are old, and actually very desired. Actually 60's Premier Olympics are made from mahogany shells that have aged beautifully and sound like magic today.

Again take Vintage Super Zyn cymbals. They are not Vintage A's or K's but no recording drummer should be without at least one set of Hats from this lot!! Super ultra bad base range pies made for the lower end without shame, but they record amazing!! The Hats are like playing tissue paper!! They can pick up a good price these days.

Vintage means OLD. Not good, great or cool or classy, just old and thats it. It's still up to you to know what is the stand out percussion instruments of choice, the classics should I say? Thats why we have this forum.

My friend explains vintage drums this way. "You just know them when you hear them" and maybe we need to leave it at that. But again that means no agreed upon definition just pure subjectivity.

The definition of "VINTAGE":

[COLOR="Magenta"]vin·tage [vin-tij] Show IPA noun, adjective, verb, vin·taged, vin·tag·ing.

noun

1.

the wine from a particular harvest or crop.

2.

the annual produce of the grape harvest, especially with reference to the wine obtained.

3.

an exceptionally fine wine from the crop of a good year.

4.

the time of gathering grapes, or of winemaking.

5.

the act or process of producing wine; winemaking.[/COLOR]

However often the word may be incorrectly used, its reference to anything other than wine is merely subjective, aggrandizing nonsense.

(Note that the definition does not refer to age duration... but simply to the year of creation)