You hit one of the nails square -- warmth.

Modern kits flat out lack warmth and woodiness of tone. To my ears, I hear the head choice and not so much the shell build with today's offerings.

I have several kits ... some listed here, some not. I have fallen in love with the 70s Slingerland sound. My Rogers is a very melodic jazz kit - huge amount of resonance and warmth and beautiful tone. The Luddy kit is skinned for a deep fat low end sound. One of the kits wears calf. Another is medium thin coated heads. Yet another has thicker clear heads. They all give a unique play, but ALL are warm and resonant and with a wonderful woodiness. My DWs didn't have it, nor did the Tamas, or the Pearls, or or or or or etc etc etc.

They just can't duplicate the classic vintage look and sound. Something is sacrificed and compromised with every attempt.

John,

From my perspective, I've only owned two sets in my life and I was so green with my first set that I can't even remember the sound quality.

The second set was purchased with still very little knowledge of what makes a good kit on my part but bought my stainless steel set anyway because they looked great and the cost was low at the time.

I have learned a lot in the last few years and had I known then what I know now, I would not have opted for the SS. The warmth that you speak of is not present with my kit. Lets face it wood warm, steel not so much. So I have done all that I can to get the most warmth from my pots and pans.

However, if you're into booming sound, resonance and projection they're awesome and the new versions are quite expensive. But, they don't outsell wood.

I am very interested in the responses to this thread. My curiosity stems more from the "why" and "how" are modern drums different from vintage drums. In our discussion regarding Camco drums, it made me wonder why that kind of bearing edge is so hard to come by now. Have tastes changed and drum manufacturers have accommodated those changes or did manufacturers change for the sake of expediency and the market just went with it? I know I do find some pretty great success with my contemporary kits once they are mic'd up. I would agree that there is more definition in the head selection and somewhat less tone with my modern kits.

As an aside, has anyone here tried DW's "vintage" line? They are advertised as having a more traditional layup and a round-over edge.

Is the difference in tone more akin to the use of old growth woods? It has always seemed to me that standard drum shell construction, when compared to other wooden instrument construction, would not be all that complicated. Of course then there are the Joe Partridge snares...

I don't have quite the collection that many have. I know when I set up my B/O Ludwigs, they roar and make me want to play something open and loud. When I set up my various Sligerland orphans (one of these days I'll make a kit out of them) they seem a little more polite, but still quite versatile. I find my Premier kit is pretty similar in sound to the Slingerlands when tuned in a similar fashion.

I have always been one that felt the need for the proper kit for a given style of music, probably to a fault. I see guys that can take the same kit and switch from rock, to blues, to funk, to big band, to jazz combo music. They make me envious. If I am playing in a small combo, I feel at home with an 18" or 20" kick, a 12" and 14" or 16" floor, a shallow snare and some dark cymbals. I want my toms tuned up with coated heads and my kick very open with no hole. While that set-up is great in that scenario, I don't feel very inspired to play rock tunes on it. The inverse is also true.

Sounds like somebody needs to check out an Allegra kit. :D

I am the proud owner of two DW kits, a set of fibreglass drums, an orphan kit of Slingerlands, and a vintage set of Premiers. Which one calls me home? My Premiers. Which ones give me a variety of sounds? My fibreglass drums. Which ones feel warm? The Slingys. I liken Slingerland drums to the average girl who is really, really fun, then you see how hot she really is!!! Which ones sound good, yet modern? My DW's. They remind me of the kit I miss the most: my old Champagne Sparkle Rogers kit, except these tune a heck of a lot lower than the Rogers. Other modern kits don't do anything for me. But as I always say, your mileage may vary.

If I had the room and the $$$, I'd have several Rogers kits. But the DW kits will do fine for me, and at the price I bought them, they will flip nicely.

> My curiosity stems more from the "why" and "how" are modern drums different from vintage drums.

Always goes back to three basic things: 1. Shell lay-up, 2. Bearing edges, 3. Hardware. Aging of the wood plays some part I'm sure, but I think you'd need an oscilloscope to tell the difference. I've been saying how I can't understand why nobody, DW included, ever thinks to use the George Way bearing edge profile on their drum lines. Nothing else sounds like an early Camco kit. They used four ply maple Jasper shells with maple re-rings and then added those miracle edges to make drums that were out of this world in terms of pure musical tone. Nobody is repeating the 'formula.' If it's a hands down winner, why not?

Modern drums have volume, attack and projection, but warmth and that FAT sound are nowhere to be found. I haven't played many modern kits by a long shot, but none of the ones I have played sound anywhere near as good as my old, 'made in USA' kits from 60+ years ago. I was really disappointed when I sat down behind a DW kit for the first time. They may sound good recorded, but I didn't like the 'live' sound of them one bit. It surprised me that I didn't like the sound of them. I fully expected a rewarding drumming experience. They just sounded too dry, boxy, flat, for my taste.

OK rant over... but it's all in the materials and edges as I mentioned earlier.

John

Really?? I thought it was all in the player. Isn't it common knowledge of the story that John Bonham could sit behind ANY kit, and it would still sound like John Bonham? He's played and recorded with (both live and in the studio) a Slingerland kit, two different 3-ply Ludwig kits, a Vistalite kit, a 6-ply Ludwig kit, and a stainless steel kit. And in playback, they all sound the same to me.....just like John Bonham.

Same way a pro golfer can hit a 300 yard drive with anything he/she uses,but,a pro has to feel the instrument/club and they just know when somethings right with it.

While it is true that a drummer's technique and approach have a huge impact on the sound, I don't think that really applies to this conversation. As an example, Purdie has a personal technique and a particular style and he finds that he is drawn to some drum sounds more than others.

While the comment about Bonham making any kit "sound" like Bonham, that is not a literal statement. Really, any drummer with some decent experience makes a kit "sound" like him or herself. I absolutely gaurantee that if you sat Bonham down in one room with a green sparkle kit, a maple thermogloss kit, a Vistalite kit and a SS kit, you would find that they all sounded different. They would all sound like Bonham, but they would not sound the same. His recordings all sound similar to me but they don't sound the same IMO. And keep in mind, you are listening to recordings of drums, not the drums themselves.