I was at the warehouse getting a couple of drum kits prepped for an upcoming tour. It was quiet and no one was around so I decided to play for a few minutes. First I played a DW kit with clear 2 ply over clear 1 ply toms. Then I played a Yamaha Maple Custom Absolute again with 2 ply clear over single ply clear. That is a killer kick drum by the way. Then I pulled out an early-mid 70's B/O Ludwig kit with 3ply + re-ring clear interiors. Coated 2 ply over coated single ply. I played the 13" tom and there was that really warm vintage tone. I was stoked! I had a '65 Jazz Festival that for all the world sounded like a 402. It was killer. I started playing (or attempting to play) "Fool in the Rain" as that is what the kit sounded like it wanted to play. Then I noticed a problem. I felt like I had to beat the living daylights out of that kit including the kick to keep up with the snare. It wore me out. Thinking that maybe this was a coated vs. clear issue so I pulled out a Spaun kit that was 2 ply over 1 ply - both coated. They were loud as well.

Obviously this was not a truly scientific approach as I would probably need a hundred or so kits of various makes and ages to compare, but I found this very interesting. I did not pull out any of my Slingy kits as they always "seemed" a little more "polite" then the Ludwig kit.

By the way, i was using the same Jazz Fest with all four kits and I was playing in a warehouse with concrete floors, and 22' steel and aluminum ceiling. Any thoughts?

Great review! And it makes sense to me that the older drums with vintage round-over bearing edges was warmer and not as loud as the modern kits with the sharp 45's on the edges. I think you heard exactly what you're supposed to hear; the modern drums with the 45's are loud and project well with lots of attack, and the vintage kit with the big round-over is warmer, quieter with more low-end.

Must have been echo-y in that huge space! A lot of engineers like to record in spaces like that with high ceilings. My good friend, Ron Zabrocki was a recording engineer for Arista Records for many years. He recorded the following in his home studio which is a high ceiling space. Listen to how BIG the drums sound. BTW, Ron played -everything- you hear on this recording. Extremely talented musician. You should check out his channel on You Tube. Enjoy,

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKgkS7mXrSc[/ame]

Thanks for the review...

John

Cool track. Yes the warehouse does lend itself to the arena sound and style of playing! I am not surprised that a vintage kit would not be as loud, but I was truly shocked at the difference. It could be this particular kit but it felt like it was giving me nothing back. It sure did sound nice though.

I believe that I would have to say that I like the old and the new. Choose the right tool for the job and get on with it.

Mic up that old kit just right, (criss-cross two overheads above the brass, one mic on the snare and one in the bass drum,) and you won't have to beat the hell out of it to hear it. And, yep... if something works better in a given situation, use it!

[IMG]http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n632/PurdieShuffle/micset-up-1.jpg[/IMG]

John

I'm playing some 1980 Tama Superstars at the moment. Not quite in the same class of vintage as the old American kits many of you are playing but they serve my purposes very well. Big drums in traditional depths (24x14, 13x9, 16x16 plus a 12x8 and 14x10 that I don't use often) with rounded bearing edges on thin(ish) birch shells. Running coated emperors over coated ambassadors on the toms and a clear emperor kick batter with solid smooth white ambassador on the front. Big, warm, full sounding drums, lots of punch, great tone, pretty sensitive and high volume ceiling if you want to really slam them. Playing mainly rock and some bluesy/rootsy stuff. Also, the kit isn't so nice that I feel bad about taking them out of the house. And hell... Elvin played 'em.

> Elvin played 'em.

Elvin played on -your- kit? Or do you just mean he played Superstars?

Welcome to VDF!

John

Welcome to the forum,and yes Elvin did play Superstars for a while,with a Tama bell brass snare.Donn Bennett recently sold one of Elvins superstar kits to a buyer in Japan.

My supes are from 77 and are the 9600 series.They are 4 ply 6mm shells,with re rings,as oppose to the later 6 ply 9mm shells without re rings.Both series sound great,but the thinner shells seem to be a little warmer and not quite as loud .

Steve B

He didn't play my kit... But he had a stint on Supes and that's good enough for me. Generally under appreciated drums in my opinion.

I've actually posted here on and off for a while but my account has reset the post count, but thanks for the welcome anyway!

My best attempts at dating mine puts them at about 1980. No rings but full round over edges and from memory they have the 6mm shells. The 24x14 is a monster.... So much more balls than the old 22x18 of my previous kit.

Why? Because the 6ply Jasper and the 6 ply Keller era Camco's absolutely slay the Slingerland style Poplar heavy 3 and 4 ply shells. Those 6 ply drums by the way are the shells that have been copied by so many and are the basis of the thin shelled DW Collector Series..