I just looked at my FB.......he left POS FB on May of 2005, so only 6 years ago my kit went cheap.....

Pounder,

I think he kept the cymbal. I'll never see it again. I'm sure about that. It was a grrrrreat sounding one, though. I just never seem to have the cash to spare when these things come along. It's "the one that got away"!

No need to apologize, Pounder. This forum, for me, is all about information exchange. The Jazzette has been a subject I have studied extensively for years. I have been in many "heated" discussions over it and 99.999999% of the time, its the smallest details that make the differences. So, "mincing drums" is exactly what I'm doing...but, NOT to be mean. I do it to be accurate. I've read discussions at some other forums where they all form a big group hug and agree to agree with each other based upon their brotherhood. But sometimes, it can stifle people's exchange of correct/accurate information.

In the past, when people came here for valuations, it was common practice to look at similar 'sold' items on eBay and then make an estimate based on that. But, as I've said, I have seen a trend for vintage drum prices on eBay to be diminishing. Instead of seeing 3-4 mint complete drum sets to compare prices with, as used to be the case, now, it's changed. You don't see nearly as many complete/original kits (with matching snare drums). What you do see are: re-wrapped kits, refurbished kits, kits that have been pieced together from other kits, converted drums, drums with extra holes/non-original hardware, etc. I can no longer make valuations based upon what I'm seeing happening on eBay because of this. I tell people to price their sales based upon whatever means they want -magic or whatever it might be. ;) There's simply no rhyme or reason to why something sells or doesn't sell. That's the point of this thread and the point of my contention.

A price guide WOULD be great, but there is so much in flux that it would only be accurate for weeks or months or days at a time. As soon as the market changed, it would become irrelevant. For example: Vintage Super Classics in a silver sparkle finish sell for (_________) amount of money. But, then Joe Morello dies and all the drummers/fans of Morello want to get a SS SC. So, for a minute, SS SC's go up in price (________). But then, the trend cools and SS SC's go back to selling for (________) again. So, a price guide would be impractical, in my opinion.

What's the solution, then? There is no solution! The solution could be to save up your money and wait until the EXACT thing you're looking for comes along and then decide for yourself. A few years ago, when I was buying drum sets, I wouldn't have hesitated for a second to pay 1900 for a mahogany Jazzette shell pack. But, recently, when one came up for auction, it just wasn't worth as much (to me) anymore....because I have already satisfied my jones for Jazzette. In the same regard, I think many collectors have satisfied their joneses, as well. And, in turn, pricing has changed because of it.

And one other thing I want to mention is this:

Let's say there are 1000 collectors (just for the sake of easy math for the example) and there are 10,000 vintage drum sets of a given configuration.

Factor in a 10 year time span for the collectors to find the drum sets.

After that period of time, do you think there will be any drum sets left to collect? I don't. I think this is essentially what has happened. There were "X" number of collectors looking for "X" drum sets and they've been at it for "X" number of years. Since there are no more vintage drums being made, it's just a matter of time before the supply is exhausted. It's not something that was destined to last forever. And, because of this, the valuations are no longer controlled by the buying public. They are controlled by the sellers. There are still exceptions, of course. There will always be exceptions. But you can't make price generalizations based on the exceptions.

and just to be realistic....

Let's say that one tenth of those 10,000 drum sets are in original condition. Let's assume that many of those 10,000 kits have become "compromised" in one way or another. That makes the remaining sets that are original and intact, and UNcompromised, even more desired.

It's desire that sets the prices for vintage drums. That means that if distributed evenly, the 1000 collectors will each get only ONE original drum set. If distributed UNevenly, there might be 900 of those collectors to go without getting any of the original complete kits. Maybe only the wealthiest collectors will get the original complete sets. It might even end up that ONE wealthy collector gets the lion's share of all the nicest stuff. And since he's rich, his perspective on value is completely different than the guy who doesn't have the big money. What's a thousand dollars to a guy who has a million? What's a million dollars to a guy who has a billion?

As Montgomery Burn would say on the Simpsons, "I like the cut of his jib." That was a nice collection of thoughts regarding collecting. The real crime of it all would be that x drum collector exhausting x drums from the buying public and then they sit and never get played. One of the things that is so wonderful about drums is how great they sound. That set of Capri Pearls that I just got; I want to play that Radio King and record it. Maybe I would never gig with it. I don't gig with my Ludwigs or my old Gretsch either. Not because I am worried so much about the drums as much as I am worried about someone in the band spilling beer on them. My Ludwigs sound sooooooo good. All of my drums sound really good and I am incredibly lucky. I hope all the guys on this forum play their kits and get that buzz. Drums are the best instrument in the world and they have power aside from the aesthetic. It's the one instrument that every person cannot resist the temptation to sit down and try to make some music on. That is awesome.

I agree with most, if not all that was said on this post...I recently posted about a Ludwig Psyc Red finish, how much it was worth, good buy, what would you pay etc...My post was not for anyone to make my decision but to educate me... so I can make more informed decisions on what something is worth. I understand that something might be worth more to me but not be worth the same price someone else might pay. Thats why I was looking for a "ballpark" number...no matter the market, up ... down...there is a middle...could be lower middle...or upper middle...but a starting point. I have learned much already and I hope that someday I am as well educated in the "Vintage" market as many of you are.

I'm one of the people who plays what I have collected. I was happy to scuff up some virgin drumheads on a couple of my old kits. No problem. Someone had t do it...so why not me? I also believe drums are beautiful to look at. And I don't always have to play them to be satisfied by them. I can get plenty of enjoyment from looking at them....in real life, in magazines, on calendars...on television...on YouTube, etc.

And that's another thing that makes pricing a difficult concept. The value of vintage drums increases exponentially when you sit down and play them -in my experience, anyway. At that point, only YOU know what the value of that feeling is worth. That's why my drum room is full! I have kits that I bought with the full intention of reselling for considerable profit. And yet, when I put my hands on them, I can't let them go. But I'm getting some pressure *ahem* to sell things to make more room in the house. Cool Dude

And I want to tell you that your drums are worth twice as much as what a brand-new psych red drum set is worth...because they ARE. But if I tell you that, how can I back up my claim? Ebay simply doesn't reflect that kind of value at the moment. On the other hand, I know what those drums feel like to play, from having experience at playing lots of vintage drum sets over the years. Again, how can I convey that feeling and translate it into monetary terms?

Another example is on eBay right now. It's for a Mod Orange Big Beat kit -VERY nice drums in extremely good condition. There are already bids up to $2,200.00 with a few days to go. Some people are expecting them to go much higher. If they do, then I ask you (all)....does that price reflect what a vintage Ludwig kit in that configuration is selling for, in general -so as to provide a kind of 'price guide' as was mentioned earlier? Or, is it an example of a price that two or more people were willing to pay, on that day, for those, particular drums? I say it's the latter. And for that reason, the 'ballpark' figure that I could offer would have to be so vast, it would take all day just to run to first base! lol!

Your drums are worth somewhere between $400 - $6,000! ;)

Based on the assumption that a "collector" would only be interested in an original set, I've come to the conclusion that I'm not a collector. I've came to this conclusion long ago, though, based on other factors. I'm realistic. I like the fact that I can find an altered set for much cheaper than a mint perfect museum piece. That way I can get into a vintage drum set for a much better price than a comparable new set, and I can get busy playin' the muthas.

There is no one type of collector. I happen to be one who is EXTREMELY particular about originality. That's me. I only have so much room for drum sets in my home. If I bought every "players" kit I came across, then my entire house would be filled from the basement to the attic. So, back in the day, it was only when I would find something reeeeallly special, that I would buy it. I also was given drums and sets from antique dealers who would buy a "lot" of items that had some old drums included. Pretty soon, I had an entire room filled with drums, hardware, percussion instruments, toys, ads, books, sticks, etc. Every bit of my collection is cool. That's why it's hard for me to sell any of it. All of it has a story attached -a history. But, when I do sell it, I want the sales to be to individuals who feel that same particular way about the details as I do....and also people who have a lot of money to spend on drums, because I'm not selling them cheap!! heh heh ;)